by Chase Stallo
Sign of the Lap Times: Daytona
Tuesday, March 12, 2013 | 4:25 PM
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PrintTake a deep dive inside the lap charts with this week's Sign of the Lap Times.
450SX Class
| Lap Rank | Finish | Best Lap | In Lap | Avg Lap Time | Rider |
| 1 | 1 | 1:18.964 | 5 | 1:21.565 | Ryan Villopoto |
| 2 | 3 | 1:19.471 | 5 | 1:22.208 | Justin Barcia |
| 3 | 8 | 1:19.795 | 3 | 1:24.066 | James Stewart |
| 4 | 2 | 1:19.908 | 5 | 1:21.801 | Ryan Dungey |
| 5 | 7 | 1:19.930 | 3 | 1:23.721 | Ken Roczen |
| 6 |
5 | 1:20.547 | 3 | 1:22.705 | Chad Reed |
| 7 | 4 | 1:20.613 | 13 | 1:22.313 | Eli Tomac |
| 8 |
6 | 1:20.684 | 3 | 1:23.234 | Trey Canard |
| 9 | 9 | 1:21.268 | 3 | 1:23.928 | Broc Tickle |
| 10 | 11 | 1:21.379 | 3 | 1:24.462 | Matt Goerke |
| 11 | 16 | 1:21.852 | 6 | 1:25.807 | Mike Alessi |
| 12 | 10 | 1:21.993 | 3 | 1:24.823 | Davi Millsaps |
| 13 | 12 | 1:22.137 | 3 | 1:25.635 | Andrew Short |
| 14 | 20 | 1:22.813 | 4 | 1:23.251 | Justin Brayton |
| 15 | 14 | 1:23.126 | 4 | 1:26.353 | Les Smith |
| 16 | 18 | 1:23.801 | 5 | 1:26.985 | Weston Peick |
| 17 | 13 | 1:23.912 | 6 | 1:25.637 | Jake Weimer |
| 18 | 17 | 1:24.178 | 5 | 1:28.798 | Ben LaMay |
| 19 | 15 | 1:24.228 | 5 | 1:26.444 | Josh Hill |
| 20 | 19 | 1:24.283 | 3 | 1:27.645 | Phil Nicoletti |
450SX
- For the second consecutive week Ryan Villopoto would set the fastest time of the night with a 1:18.964. Villopoto was the only rider to have a lap under 1:19.
- RV laid down some heaters early in the race, setting his first nine laps under the 1:21 mark.
- Ryan Dungey also had a good stretch early (laps 3-9), with seven straight laps under 1:21. This stretch would mark the second longest behind Villopoto’s nine straight to begin the race.
- The latest fastest lap of the night belonged to Eli Tomac, who set a 1:20.613 on lap 13. Tomac was on fire late, gaining nearly a second a lap on Justin Barcia for third, before a late mistake cost him a chance at a podium position.
- Here’s an idea of how far Tomac stepped up with that 1:20 lap time. On laps 3-13, Tomac kept his laps under the 1:23 mark. That’s solid, but it gives you an idea how much faster he got to set that 1:20.
- Chad Reed was fast all day, but mistakes plagued the veteran. Still, Reed showed the speed was there with eight straight laps under 1:22 to begin the race.
- The long, tough Daytona track definitely tested the mental and physical fortitude of the field. Laps times dropped off significantly late in the race, with most riders’ average lap times nearly three seconds slower than early in the race.
Comparison
Justin Barcia, Davi Millsaps
Even race winner Ryan Villopoto said it was almost impossible to avoid mistakes on the rough Daytona track. And as the laps went on the riders got tired, and the track got rougher, mistakes were magnified. Check out the chart below to see the difference for Justin Barcia and Davi Millsaps.
| Lap | Justin Barcia | Davi Millsaps |
| 2 | 1.21.719 | 1.27.046 |
| 3 | 1.19.933 | 1.21.993 |
| 4 | 1.20.178 | 1.23.380 |
| 5 | 1.19.471 | 1.22.638 |
| 6 | 1.19.843 | 1.23.300 |
| 7 | 1.21.442 | 1.23.158 |
| 8 | 1.21.671 | 1.22.583 |
| 9 | 1.23.069 | 1.23.521 |
| 10 | 1.22.238 | 1.23.790 |
| 11 | 1.22.486 | 1.23.537 |
| 12 | 1.22.585 | 1.22.968 |
| 13 | 1.21.515 | 1.23.935 |
| 14 | 1.21.765 | 1.23.964 |
| 15 | 1.23.707 | 1.25.529 |
| 16 | 1.23.723 | 1.24.937 |
| 17 | 1.23.592 | 1.26.230 |
| 18 | 1.23.523 | 1.26.594 |
| 19 | 1.23.002 | 1.27.480 |
| 20 | 1.26.505 | 1.34.357 |
As you can see, Barcia stayed relatively close to his opening round laps, falling off the pace a couple seconds during laps 15-19. But he was consistent—staying in the 1:21s and then the 1:23s lap after lap. Meanwhile, Millsaps, who looked to be laboring most of the day, started going all over the map during laps 15-19. Millsaps crashed earlier in the week testing, and it seemed to have affected him late in the race on a tough, tough track.
Comparison #2
James Stewart vs. Davi Millsaps vs. Broc Tickle - Laps 16-20
Dodge/Sycuan RCH team owner Ricky Carmichael didn’t seem pleased with his star rider Broc Tickle’s performance in Daytona, expressing as much on the Speed broadcast. But looking at the raw numbers, late in the race, Tickle actually held Millsaps (who was desperate for points) at bay and picked up ground on Stewart. Check out the chart below to see how Tickle fared against Stewart and Millsaps through the final laps.
| Lap | James Stewart | Davi Millsaps | Broc Tickle |
| 16 | 1.24.869 | 1.24.937 | 1.26.685 |
| 17 | 1.25.825 | 1.26.230 | 1.24.530 |
| 18 | 1.25.468 | 1.26.594 | 1.25.226 |
| 19 | 1.26.257 | 1.27.480 | 1.25.858 |
| 20 | 1.29.823 | 1.34.357 | 1.26.464 |
Ryan Villopoto set the fastest lap of the night in Daytona.
Simon Cudby photo
250SX Class
| Lap Rank | Finish | Best Lap | In Lap | Avg Lap Time | Rider |
| 1 | 4 | 1:19.778 | 3 | 1:24.359 | Dean Wilson |
| 2 | 1 | 1:20.855 | 4 | 1:22.410 | Marvin Musquin |
| 3 | 2 | 1:21.539 | 3 | 1:22.717 | Wil Hahn |
| 4 | 3 | 1:21.739 | 8 | 1:22.668 | Jeremy Martin |
| 5 |
18 | 1:22.807 | 8 | 1:25.760 | Zach Bell |
| 6 | 5 | 1:23.161 | 9 | 1:24.201 | Blake Wharton |
| 7 |
12 | 1:23.196 | 3 | 1:25.828 | Jimmy Decotis |
| 8 | 6 | 1:23.228 | 12 | 1:24.223 | Justin Hill |
| 9 | 10 | 1:23.482 | 3 | 1:26.686 | Vince Friese |
| 10 | 7 | 1:23.837 | 8 | 1:25.541 | Kyle Peters |
| 11 | 9 | 1:23.923 | 6 | 1:25.651 | Cole Thompson |
| 12 | 8 | 1:24.264 | 3 | 1:25.849 | Zack Freeberg |
| 13 | 15 | 1:24.476 | 2 | 1:27.102 | Lance Vincent |
| 14 | 11 | 1:24.485 | 4 | 1:26.646 | Mitchell Oldenburg |
| 15 | 16 | 1:24.590 | 3 | 1:29.021 | Brady Kiesel |
| 16 | 13 | 1:24.807 | 5 | 1:26.940 | PJ Larsen |
| 17 | 14 | 1:25.165 | 7 | 1:27.408 | AJ Catanzaro |
| 18 | 19 | 1:25.495 | 2 | 1:28.830 | Gavin Faith |
| 19 | 17 | 1:27.864 | 6 | 1:30.441 | Daniel Herrlein |
| 20 | 20 | DNF | DNF | DNF | Shawn Rife |
250SX
- For the fourth straight week Dean Wilson held down the top spot in 250SX lap times with a 1:19.778 on lap 3. Wilson was the only rider in 250SX to break the 1:20 mark.
- Marvin Musquin picked up his first career SX win in Daytona, thanks in part to his consistency on the harsh Daytona conditions. Musquin had only two laps over the 1:23 mark—his final two.
- Jeremy Martin also played the consistent card en route to his first career podium. Martin’s three laps over 1:23 were second only to Musquin in the consistency category.
- The latest fastest lap of the night came from rookie Justin Hill, who set a 1:23.228 on lap 12.
- Blake Wharton didn’t have the night he wanted in Daytona, but his lap times were very consistent. The Rockstar Energy Racing team member never went under 1:23 in his lap times, but also never went over 1:26.
Comparison
Dean Wilson vs. Wil Hahn vs. Jeremy Martin
Throughout the day in Daytona, Dean Wilson looked primed to secure his second victory of 2013. He topped the charts in practice, won his heat, and was applying pressure early to leader Marvin Musquin. Then the wheels began to come off for Wilson. First he was tracked down by points leader Wil Hahn, losing valuable championship points in the process. But the bleeding didn’t stop there, as hotshot rookie Jeremy Martin was able to catch and pass Wilson. Let’s dig deeper to see where Wilson lost ground.
| Lap | Dean Wilson | Wil Hahn | Jeremy Martin | |
| 2 | 1.21.675 | 1.21.888 | 1.22.596 | |
| 3 | 1.19.778 | 1.21.539 | 1.23.322 | |
| 4 | 1.21.690 | 1.21.638 | 1.21.826 | |
| 5 | 1.21.686 | 1.22.098 | 1.22.674 | |
| 6 | 1.22.107 | 1.21.559 | 1.21.958 | |
| 7 | 1.24.483 | 1.22.284 | 1.22.105 | |
| 8 | 1.23.125 | 1.23.376 | 1.21.739 | |
| 9 | 1.22.470 | 1.22.389 | 1.22.726 | |
| 10 | 1.25.758 | 1.24.636 | 1.22.295 | |
| 11 | 1.27.659 | 1.23.478 | 1.25.378 | |
| 12 | 1.29.763 | 1.23.758 | 1.22.846 | |
| 13 | 1.27.543 | 1.23.012 | 1.22.854 | |
| 14 | 1.27.016 | 1.23.438 | 1.22.041 | |
| 15 | 1.26.281 | 1.22.954 | 1.23.002 | |
| Avg | 1.24.359 | 1.22.717 | 1.22.668 |
As the chart shows, lap eight was a big one for Martin, who gained nearly two seconds on both Wilson and Hahn to join the fray. Two laps later Wilson began to sink, setting a 1:25.758—his worst lap up to that point—, which allowed Hahn to make the pass. Wilson continued to struggle, posting five straight laps over 1:25 to end the race, while Martin was in a groove with only one lap over a 1:22 during the same stretch.
Wilson set the fastest lap of the night in 250SX.
Simon Cudby photo
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The 450 lap times says the whole story behind RD5 success. Not the fastest but consistently faster than most. He had the 4 th fast lap of the main but the 2nd fastest average. He is the complete opposite of JS7 who usually has the fastest lap but crashes his way down the average lap times.
Wilson threw the anchor out on lap 7....He didn't start smoking did he?? Just say'n.
Looks like Barcia was alot more consistant than SOME GUYS think.. He seems to be fine as far as fitness goes if you ask me..
@ with Stewart able to turn a 1:19 for at least one lap.. I'm not so sure about him saying he had a bad front tire choice.. I think he is injured more than he was letting on, or his suspension change was way off.. But why change what worked so well in his heat race??
Will Hahn looked great, his lap times are great too. so consistant the entire race, I am thrilled. glad the East Coast isnt a runaway, I was afraid Wilson would be like Barcia and just run away with it..
Yeah, I was hoping for a better finish for Stewart, but at the same time he wasnt happy with or on the bike and didnt over do it and not finish...had his little dump over in the sand and that had to frustrate him more since the berm just gave way...and I noticed he was dickin' around trying to get all the sand or mud off his gloves for about a half a lap.... he just did what he needed to do to finish and get out of there healthy..If any track will jack you up, its Daytona.... Im sure if he was in a points battle he would have pushed it...but after the fall, a podium finish was not in the cards that night so he just "finished"....
RV 1 sec faster on average than 2nd, 1= on the rest....nice show man. Solid ride for Dunge, i knew he'd get up to podium. I was hoping ET would get JBarcia honestly, oh well, great effort by both. Tire choice on that dry sand makes a hella difference, but Stewart just flat gave up IMO.
1+ on the rest**
The thing is therealmofo NO ONE would ask you!! LOL
.RV = BEAST LOL
Yes sir BillC
And correction....Dungey was avg'n 3/10 slower, not 1.
@BillC--What a lame cop-out.. But I wouldnt expect anything less from you except lame.. You arent man enough to say you was wrong.. You just dont like the kid..
People, average lap time has no meaning. Obviously, the race average for each rider is the total time divided by the number of laps. This would place riders in the exact order in which they finish. Since the first lap isn't included in the "average", the posted time on here is a measure of how they did on the start+first lap. It would make far more sense to list the riders position at the start of lap 2 rather then avg lap time.
Why would you say average lap times has no meaning? It has meaning, as long as you keep in mind what that meaning is. If you pay attention, average lap times do not always place them in the order they finish. It is a barometer of how consistent the rider was though, for the most part. For example, Deano was very fast on his fast lap and from looking at that, you might think he smoked them all. However, his average shows he did not maintain.
@therealmofo, it's CONSISTENT, not CONSISTANT.
B-KR.
My point is you get more concise information by simply knowing their position at the end of lap 1 and their finish position. It tells you what kind of start they got and whether they rode well and moved up or rode poorly and went backward.
Average lap time is skewed by a fall or other incident so it is useless without additional information.
He is right, average lap time is completely useless because it doesn't take into account a persons start. If a guy falls half thru the first lap (which isn't recorded) and takes 45 sec to get going, he can rip off the fastest laps of the night easily and have the faster average lap time without winning.
If the transponders started half way down the start straight, it would resolve the issue and be a more accurate picture
You guys are over thinking the average lap time. The only time the average lap time is irrelevant as far as the outcome of the race is if a rider crashes. Think about it, if a rider gets a last place start he is maybe 3 seconds behind the leader exiting the first turn it would only take .015 sec a lap average lap time to make up that difference. Average lap times are the reason RD5 has been so good so far over his career. It is also why JS7 does not have the all time SX win record. It is called the fastest rider over a given period of time, wether it be for a race, season or career.
@joemotocross589 and anybody else wondering what happened to Wilson. He cased a triple and faced the next jump. He slowed down quite a bit after that. I think it was on lap 6 (maybe 7). He was pulling up toward MM until that happened.
Chase, why would you do a lap comparison with Stewart?
@someguy~you wrote, "RV 1 sec faster on average than 2nd," but this is not true. RDs lap time on average was only 3/10 (.3) of a second slower than RV. RV=1:21:565 and RD=1:21:801
I am so tired of hearing about JS being injured. It seems his bogus "injury" did not stop him from getting a 2nd or a win so why is it an excuse when he rides poorly. He took a dirt nap because that is what he always does best.
Two things I find striking. Wilson over a second better than anyone else, yet fades to 4th, and Kroc .7 of a sec better than ET, and he fades to 7th while ET moves up to 4th.
It must be obvious, even to someone who has never thrown a leg over a MX machine, that something went very wrong with both of them. They are professional MX riders at the top of their game, so I totally rule out a lack of fitness. There was far more to it than that. Although Deano didn't mention it, I think he smacked his head badly when he cased a jump (watch the vid) and it really effected him, and Kroc obviously got hard arms due to lack of preparation on the 350, which was a pity, because for the first couple of laps he looked sooooo good out there.
The fact ET stuck his best lap in on lap 13 is unbelievable. That kid is FIT.
I agree that average lap time would be a nice piece of info if every rider put in 14 clean laps during the race. Unfortunately that is the case for few riders in any given race. Once a rider has one poor lap the average becomes meaningless.
Two different scenarios:
-Rider A puts in the 13 fastest laps of the night but on lap 8 he stalled his bike and it took 30 seconds to get it started. He finishes 15th.
-Rider B gets a great start then rides a clean race with some of the slowest lap times of the evening. He finishes 14th
In this case you have the fastest rider of the night and the slowest rider of the night but they end up with the exact same average lap times and finish together at the back of the pack. Once rider A had a bad lap, his average became meaningless because we don't have the information that is needed.
@Pippi. Concerning Wilson, Matthes implied in his "observations" that things were quite contentious in the PC pits after the race. I have a hard time believing that Mitch would be angry with a rider that was injured yet toughed it out to salvage a 4th on a track like Daytona.
It is always possible that Matthes is mucking up the situation with uninformed assumptions about what was going on in the PC pits.
therealmofo, no cop out bud!! My opion and what others have said also...Hell even Barcia said it. But I guess you are right.
I wonder if the riders look at these charts? I, for one, would love to be the guy that had the "latest fast lap". Now I understand about nursing a lead and that the typical SX doesnt really wear you out, but I still would want to be laying down fast laps at the end. I wonder if these guys are looking at this?
Mit12, if that were the case you would be right. Unfortunately the entire first lap is not recorded.. The timer starts when they reach the finish line at the end of lap 1. At this point Andrews short could be leading while Villopoto is still kicking his bike in the first turn. Villipoto could have the fastest average of th entire packing working up and finishing in 10th. While short has average averages and wins.
You pretty much need all the riders starting the timers together for anything to be meaningful.
I agree, the fastest lap of the night is an ego trip an very important.
@BILLC- Barcia said he was tired?? Reallly?? NO he didnt, he said they 2 ryans rode awesome, gave them props.. You just love to cut him down. You never said anything good about him or how well he rode until you got called out.. Face it BillC--you dont like him and couldnt even give the kid props for podiuming on the toughest supercross of the year, against a stacked field..until you got called out.. You just had to find a way to slam him.. So you tried to cut down his fitness.. Turns out its fine..the lap times prove it.. Just man up and act like you have a pair..I havent seen where ANYONE but you have said it..
@JW62557----Re-read my threads, you'll see that it was corrected, by me.
Reedin iz gud.
bad laps or not the average lap times still mean something. You F**k up, and that's your bad, it affects your time. Period. Granted in some situations you can have a shitty lap that lowers the average, but if you pay attention to the races, anyone with a bad lap can still make the win or podium by being consistent after that...i say 2, maybe 3/10 times the laps dont show much. But everyone f'd up on this track.
He's not cuttin bBarcia down down man, damn. It's merely an observation, he didnt say barcia was sh!t and had piss poor performance, just that he appeared to wear and he did in not so many words say that he was getting worn down, aka tired.
@rickamatuzio
If you read my post again I said the only time average lap times are not revelant is when a rider crashes. If you have a clean first turn and round it in 20th you will only be 3 seconds behind the leader. At thar point average lap times are critical and have a direct impact on the outcome of the race. I agree that the absolute fastest lap is for bragging rights but no matter how you slice it ti still factors into the average lap.
therealmofo man it gets old dealing with you. Barcia got beat by what 20sec? Then says them two Ryans are "bad dudes" when he was ALL OVER RV for a wile. Like I said you can believe what you want and i will believe what i want.
.As for me having a pair. I am all set thanks but you seem to be way to sensitve about things, Saying i think he got tired is RIPPING on and hateing someone to you!! You may want to put your hand down your pants and see it them little grapes are still hanging there.
One other thing the fact that RD passed barcia with NO fight at all tells me barcia was tired too. Man I bet that pissses you off. LOL
@someguy. Just trying to say that if you have all the information that you need to draw a meaningful conclusion from the "average lap times", there is no reason to be interested in the number in the first place. If you notice in the article, Chase made no references to the average lap times in comments or comparisons for either class. Why would that be?
I ignore the number anyway. I also ignore posts that use the number without the supporting information. And that's all I have to say about that.
Note: Chase did mention average lap times slowing by 3 seconds compared to earlier lap times. This reference has nothing to do with the "average lap times" posted.
No it doesnt at all.. He gave props to those two, that shows maturity.. RV and Dungey are at the top of the class.. Barcia is just a rookie, and is doing great.. Why would any of that tick me off.. You just tried to bad-mouth him some way.. And you were wrong, and now you are back-pedaling trying to say what you can to save face.. You are a know-it-all who really doesnt know alot.. You usually try to jump on a bandwagon to make yourself sound smart.. Saying "I have been saying that forever" which is usually the same thing EVERYONE has been saying.. I can just bet you where ticked by seeing how well Barcia is doing, because you do not like him.. You called him a punk once, and now trying to say he isnt in shape, which he is.. He held off Reed and Tomac, and you said he cant run outdoors with the two ryans, then it really looks bad for everyone behind Barcia.. You must be hating it seeing Barcia beat your closet favorite in Stew..
therealmofo, This is getting real OLD. Either You can't rememeber crap or you can't read I don't know which one yet.
.For the last time JS IS NOT MY FAV!!!
.I did call Barcia a PUNK and he was being PUNK when i said it. I do not back peddle.
.Also i do not hate any of the guys out there raceing. Just because I say someone is acting like a PUNK does not mean I hate them.
.As for holding off Reed and tomac?? I did not see them to close, Reed started way back and worked his way up very weel and Tomac was closeing on Barcia and fell so we really don't know if he could have "held" them off if Reed started better and Tomac did not fall. Bottom line is he beat them other than that is just a guess.
.Please do us all a fav and read my post 4 or 5 times. Thanks
.I just looked at your post again!! You said RV and RD are the top of the class, HOW COULD YOUR RIP ON BARCIA LIKE THAT!!!! Shame on you!!!
RV and Dungey is the top of the class...Easily...even Barcia said they where bad dudes.. I commented saying he seems to be in shape based on his lap times.. they didnt drop off badly at all.. He was consistent.. And you said in another thread that he got "schooled" on fitness by the two Ryans.. Its not the case..so what am I NOT remembering????
@you didnt say Barcia was "acting" like a punk.. You said "He is a punk"....there is a difference..
@you said I dont kn ow if he could have held them off if one didnt fall and Reed started better?? What is with the "IFS" all of a sudden.. He did beat them, they were charging all race, he beat them so he did hold them off...whats with the "IFS" ???
But tell me what I dont remember.. I made the first post here ---you wrote something sarcastic-no real response..then you wrote "Barcia said it" which makes no sense from my post saying his fitness was good..so what did I not remember??
Guys this is a public form made for people to give their opinions. If a person does not like someone it is their problem not yours and you do not need to attack their religion, race, creed, home land etc. People need to gro up and take this for what it is.
Mit12 I said "Like I said you can believe what you want and i will believe what i want." I also said "My opion "
.But he just wont let it go. I guess I need to agree with him or he will not be happy. He seems to think he can Prove how JB felt wile I said this is what I think.
@BILLC--That BullSh!t and you know it.. My original post was from YOU saying in another thread that Barcia got "schooled" by Rv and Dungey on fitness.. how is that saying this is what you "think"????
And my post said I think the lap times show Barcias fitness is fine in my "opinion"
Then YOU responded with a sarcastic post.. and now you act like "I" cant let it go?? You started with the sarcastic comment.. I didnt even mention YOU, but YOU mentioned me in your post, and you say I wont let it go..WOW!!!! what a hypocrite..
LOL who exactly did you mean when you said this "Looks like Barcia was alot more consistant than SOME GUYS think"
. I was 99% sure I was in the "SOME GUYS" part.
. And really you of all people to get mad about a sarcastic post!! Did you see the "LOL" after it?? Just having a little fun is all. Sorry it pushed you botton's. WOW
I never said I was mad--just you post to somebody else that i "wont let it go" I just responded to your post like you did to mine..
@someguy~My apology, I did not read all your posts.
Geez guys can't you just let leave well enough alone? Hehe
@Cranky I agree 100% with all of your posts, these lap charts can distort what really happened out there. I think that Eli showed that he is going to be a contender when he gets on the 450 full time. For Eli to pull those fast laps at the end of the moto after all the passing and the condition of the track was amazing!