Redux: Chase Case
Tuesday, February 26, 2013 | 4:45 PM
Racer X Redux is brought to you by Yoshimura R&D of America, the leader in performance off-road and street exhaust systems, engine management systems, engine services and hard parts.
Tweet
Advertisement | Advertise with Us
Share
Comment
Email
Print
Redux has spent the last few weeks looking ahead. We chatted with team folks about outside sponsorship, and what’s ahead on the business front. Luckily, there seems to be good news beneath some of the grim tales of team shutdowns, but all of that talk is so darned…serious.
This week, I will float another idea, a fun one. And it’s one that could also lie ahead, but is found from looking down.
Two weeks ago, AMSOIL Arenacross debuted the last leg of their 2013 revamp—the Race to the Championship. This is the Arenacross playoffs, the Arenacross post-season. After six rounds, the points standings were reset for the top ten riders, with a few bonus points awarded based on the current standings. Then, the final five weekends will serve as the playoff push.
The AX tour is now halfway through the five-weekend playoffs. The opener, held two weeks ago in Arkansas upset the order when Zach Ames won the overall and left as the new points leader. Tyler Bowers reclaimed it this weekend in Kansas. With two Race to the Championship weekends complete and three remaining, here are the current AX standings:
Arenacross Class Race to the Championship (After Race 2 of 5)
1. Tyler Bowers – 58pts Kaw
2. Jeff Gibson – 56pts KTM
3. Zach Ames – 55pts Kaw
That’s close! Certainly the stage is set for a wild final few rounds. During practice in Atlanta on Saturday, a few of us were bench racing about the AX format, and of course the conversation drifted inevitably back to Supercross. Hey, what if they tried that format here?
Current points leader Davi Millsaps would probably not be a big fan of a Chase format this season.
Simon Cudby photo
Just to let you know, for better or worse, such a rule change in Supercross won’t be an easy sell. I could (but probably won’t, just check the comments below) write fantastic propaganda here, and you can imagine clicking on Ticketmaster to buy seats, but only use the edge of them, for a supercross playoff race. But you readers and this author do not a supercross championship make. In order to pull off such a drastic change, the promoters, sanctioning bodies, teams, sponsors and riders would have to be on board, too, and in case you haven’t noticed, this sport embraces change not with an embrace but with a cold hard stare. When was the last time the points or rules or race format in Supercross changed? Let’s see, just about never? Bikes and tracks and venues change, but it’s still 20 lap mains and 25 points for a win—the usual 50/50 ratio of boring and exciting seasons be damned. Oh, in 1985, they tried a two-moto format. For 1986, they changed it back.
Ahem, where was I? Yes, Supercross playoffs. This idea is stolen blatantly from NASCAR’s Chase to the Sprint Cup (and Arenacross only continued the looting, as NHRA drag racing picked up this format a few years ago). But even NASCAR just lifted the idea of playoffs from every other sport on earth. So, if your number one argument against such a format is, “Then the best rider all season might not win,” please check out nearly every NFL season, where the team with the best overall record doesn’t end up winning the Super Bowl. Those that succeed in the pressure moments become heroes, not guys that lucked into a title. Just sayin’.
Sure is exciting to condense an entire year into short, nerve-wracking moments. Even after months and months of action, the entire season can come down to one game (race) or one play (lap) and you’ll never forget that moment, ever. That’s playoff excitement, and, by the way, NASCAR was playing radio commercials during its mega-rated Daytona 500 describing how one bad lug nut at one race cost Jimmie Johnson a title last year. This is what they want.
Don’t we? Let me throw a quick format out there. First, lets slice up the 17-race Monster Energy AMA Supercross an FIM World Championship schedule. How about 12 regular season rounds and five chase rounds? The playoffs would start in Minneapolis this year, which would suddenly make a race stuck in the middle of the season in the middle of the country more akin to Anaheim 1 part 2 (not Anaheim 2).
On the other hand, Reed and TwoTwo Motorsports probably would.
Simon Cudby photo
Or, we could go with an 11-race regular season and a six-round playoff. This would match up nicely (this year) with the Easter weekend break. The regular season would conclude in Toronto, followed by an off-weekend to rest, with Houston marking the first Chase race.
Don’t worry, you wouldn’t completely wipe out the previous 11 or 12 rounds. NASCAR “seeds” the chase just like the NFL seeds the playoffs. In the NFL, the best teams automatically skip the first round of the playoffs and get to play their playoff games at home. That’s their bonus for winning during the regular season. In NASCAR, drivers get bonus points for regular season wins, so while the playoff points start close, regular season success does net you a small advantage.
The AMSOIL Arenacross Race to the Championship gives a few bonus points based on the regular season points. It looks like this:
1st in the standings – Starts playoff with 6 points
2nd in the standings – Starts playoff with 5 points
3rd and 4th in the standings – Starts playoff with 4 points
5th and 6th in the standings – Starts playoff with 3 points
7th and 8th in the standings – Starts playoff with 2 points
9th and 10th in the standings – Starts playoff with 1 point
No doubt, such a format would be a heartbreaker for Davi Millsaps, who has had a dream season so far. But scenarious like Millsaps' in 2013 aren’t common, in fact, we’ve all been left scratching our heads to find a season that has gone like this one, ever. And, he’ll get some sort of reward for that via bonus points. I say one point isn’t enough (Bowers had a gigantic lead wiped out in AX) but at least this AX deal is a start.
In Arenacross, only the top ten riders make the Race to the Championship. The rest of the riders can still compete at the final rounds, earning purse and bonus money, but they are not eligible for the title. So this sets up a mad dash to make the top ten, which would be damned fun to watch in Supercross. Suddenly, the battle for top-ten in the series, one usually a source of pride only for riders and teams but barely even noticed by fans, becomes a knockdown drag out fight. Check these standings out right now:
10. Matt Goerke 79pts KTM
11. Broc Tickle 77pts Suz
12. Jake Weimer 61pts Kaw
After missing two rounds with a rib injury, Jake Weimer would (hypothetically) be battling for a spot in the Chase.
Simon Cudby photo
These three dudes would be scratching and clawing and fighting and digging for that final spot in the top ten. The Atlanta main event didn’t feature much passing or action, but it would have been cool to mark Weimer’s progress against Goerke and Tickle in his quest to gain ground. Remember, Weimer is trying to make up for the races he missed with injury.
Ah yes, injury. Normally in supercross, if you miss even one race with an injury (which is quite likely) your season is ruined. With this format, an injured rider has a chance at a miracle if he can just heal up, stay (or get back into) the top ten and pin it. Case in point? James Stewart. He is finally coming into his own right now. Instead of a lost season for him, he’d be back into contention once the playoffs begin. Or for those Stewart haters, think about last year, when Ryan Dungey missed time mid-season with a collarbone break, but could have rallied back just in the nick of playoff time. Would you not have been pumped for that? Also, if a rider goes down, he doesn’t have to rush back as quickly and ride with injury, thus making things worse. Take an extra week off so you’ll be strong when it counts.
Take this a step beyond. Justin Barcia could be as good as anyone over five races late in his rookie season. But his title hopes are gone right now due to two early DNFs. Maybe Chad Reed figures out his bike in a few weeks and finds his old mojo. In today’s format, motivation can sag because their title hopes are gone. But they are oh-so-not-gone if you change the format.
Granted, I’m leveraging this idea by using this season, which is uncommonly deep on talent. Rare is it that a rider seventh in points would be considered a real title contender if the points would just reset. So lets use some previous seasons as a real test. We have the Dungey/collarbone example from last year. The 2011 season was as wild and nutty as any—the points were so close that season that we practically saw what a Chase format would look like, there. Couldn’t you just hear the Voice of God pumping “Five riders, five rounds!!! Canard, Stewart, Reed, Dungey, Villopoto!!!” during opening ceremonies at round 12 two years ago?
Although an early season knee injury held him back, James Stewart would still be alive for the title in a Chase format.
Simon Cudby photo
In 2010, both James Stewart and Chad Reed were out early with injuries. There’s a chance those guys would have been scrambling to get back into the series and try to get into the top ten. Stewart’s wrist injury would likely have kept him out of it, but Reed might have had time to make it happen. That would have been more fun to watch then what Reed actually did through the back half of that season, as he tested for outdoors at home and went through the motions with nothing to gain in Supercross. In 2009, Ryan Villopoto struggled through the early rounds of his rookie 450 campaign, but he was a different (race-winning) threat in the final few races. That would have been fun if he were close in points. In 2008, Reed and Kevin Windham were slugging it out and would have continued to do so in a Chase. Essentially, the seasons where we have seen the title go down to Vegas would have looked the same. But in seasons were things got out of hand (2010 and 2012, for example), we would have had much more to talk about.
In reality, it’s not about leveling the playing field as much as it is about making the appearance of leveling the playing field. Playoffs add hope for fans and athletes. It makes you think a miracle is possible instead of knowing it isn’t (Reed, Stewart and Barcia are not going to win the SX title this year. We know it. Wouldn’t it be cool to just say, “Well, in the playoffs, anything is possible?”)
Two early DNFs have cost Justin Barcia a shot at a title in the current format... but not under a Chase format.
Simon Cudby photo
To that end, let me propose another idea. It’s not easy to win a Supercross race, so let’s just give riders who won a race a free pass into the post season, and a bonus in the standings. This would help in a season where, for example, a star wins the second round, then gets hurt at round three. Can he heal up and get back and ready in eight weeks? It all goes back to a conversation I had with an NBC exec late last season during the Nationals, when Villopoto, Stewart and Reed were out injured. These stars weren’t pushing for an early return, because they had nothing to gain by coming back for the last few Nationals. One Stewart crash in Colorado basically ended the title chase at round three. Everyone knew the title was Dungey’s at that point.
“What could we do to give a guy like Villopoto an incentive to come back?” asked the NBC guy. “He’s back on the bike and everyone says he’s riding well. But he says he has nothing gain by racing. What does he need to have to want to come back?”
We know money won’t do it. There’s a million bucks up for grabs at the Monster Energy Cup, but even that hasn’t guaranteed attendance of the stars. A million is trumped by, “So you’re telling me there’s a chance.” Maybe we should give it one.
Did you like this article?
Check out TEAM HONDA AT DAWN
in our Latest issue of Racer X available now.
Forty years ago, Team Honda arrived on the American motocross circuit with a brand new motorcycle: the game-changing Elsinore CR250. Page 170.
Look for the verified symbol 
Impulse Studios
HATE THE IDEA----It totally takes away the success the top 1 or 2 guys have had the first part of the year.. How would you like to be the top guy all year, have a 25 points lead. and get to the "chase" and have a bad race for once, and instead of being tied maybe, if the guy 2nd in points wins, you are suddendly out of the title hunt because of some DUMB chase.?? This idea sucks, sorry..
"IF IT AIN"T BROKE DON"T FIX IT!"
with all the talk about asterisk's , if RV came back in late last season while RD ran every race but they reset the points (stupid idea) and now rv races the last few rounds and wins the title, Id hope that trophy went in a closet or the bathroom because he won out of technicality he did not win from start to finish. this is not the way to get new fans like for instance I love the UFC but the day I feel like I'm watching some WWE type crap I'll never by another PPV again and I've bought every one for the past 6 years
SUCKS-- in the bad way.
Very interesting! I think I like it. Makes the back half of the season much more entertaining! However I think the leader in the standings before the "playoffs" begin should get more than 1 point over 2nd. Maybe it would be determined by the points gap from 1st to 2nd and so on? Or by wins? Or just total points? That would be a head scratcher. But never the less I like the idea and agree its time for a change!
So I take it the people who posted above me don't like football? Have an open mind guys
F%$#@ YOUR "CHASE" FORMAT!!!!!!!!!
if you want to see how NASCRAP ideas are working out for motorcyle racing, just check out an AMA superbike race this year, 1 true factory team, and all the stars are either retired or racing another series. I would say watch one on tv and see for yourself, but they don't have anyone televising them, that's how well that experiment is working.
worst. idea. ever.
oh yeah, and FU(K football
football is garbage and has been for years
Make it a 12 race series and only 1 in California & 1 in Florida at least one in Charlotte outdoors.... 250 east west in Vegas... No points just shoot out Big Bike Vegas crown champ!
Bad Idea Jason. I think its a bad idea in Nascar and NHRA too. A champion is one who can endure the rigors of the whole season and come out on top. Saving a championship slot for injured riders, riders who have a couple of bad races, and so forth just opens a Pandora's box of issues. It looks like you are basing your whole premise on getting Villopoto (or any top name) to return to the races after missing a large portion of a season. It would make the season a joke.
In a points paying series, I don't like the idea of a "playoff". However, what if during the first part of the season, riders were ranked based off of a win record - call it Wins-Podiums-Top 5's. So at the end of the regular season, Millsaps is 3-6-1, RV is 3-4-3, RD is 2-3-4, and Stewart is 2-1-8, etc... Then the normal points start up in the "playoff"
kraycing31, the AMA road racing series has been going downhill for years, and it's not a result of Nascar rules, it's a result of that idiots who made the factories mad by giving Buell unfair exceptions.
The way I see it.
We get Supercross on TV and suddenly we need to make it more exciting? So what do we do? This year it seems that real easy follow the leader tracks is the theme. Let's make it so all the riders are all lined up in a row doing laps.
Real fans want to see passes, riders comming from the back of the pack and making the pass for the win on the last lap or last corner would be better. Why creat FAKE drama by shorting up the Searies???
NASCAR needed to creat drama because the racing is boring unlike SX and MX. Next thing you know they are going to through a full lap yellow to let Chad Reed or who ever isthe crowd favorite catch up to the field because they crashed.
Let's get back to tough tracks that promote passing and make the races timed so that all SX races are at least 25 minutes!!
My 2 cents
Timed races is needed. I like watching the races in person but paying $600 for the weekend with fuel and hotel and watching a 12 minute race is no fun. Better off watching it at home so i can see all the behind the scenes stuff and save money
That AX chase thing kinda bugs me. I like to see a close finish, but I did feel for Bowers when they wiped away the MASSIVE lead he had. For SX, I like the idea of a two-moto format with fewer laps (which would steal from the AX format, which I suppose stole for the 1985 SX format!). And while I thought it was a bit of a "gag" at first, I really enjoy the head-to-head racing format in AX. Might not be good for the riders, but as a fan I would love to see the top 4 riders (top 2 in each heat race) from BOTH the 250 and 450 classes get into a one-lap head-to-head race format, for a total of 7 additional "mini" 1 lap races, with the divisions mixed (yeah not "fair" for the 250 guys, but fun to watch ... how many times have we seen 250s with the fastest lap times of the night this year? seems like about half to me). They could award 1 point extra point each for the top 250 and 450, with an additional point (or 2?) for the overall winner. Yes it would be distracting for the best riders, but again, I'm thinking it would be fun for the fans.
I like it.
That's all we need. SX 'fans' have a tough time keeping up already. This week alone we've seen confused fans not understanding that RV gained points on DM while DM increased his points lead; guys claiming that JS will now win the championship and others claiming that he's 100pts out. The 25 points that are earned every Saturday night should never be taken away, same as the 1 point earned for the guy that has a bad night.
BAD IDEA ! A racer who has a "boo boo" decides to sit a round or 2 out when he really knows he could still get a top 10/5 result. Why ? He can restart midway thru the season !
I'm not buying a SX ticket to see a bunch of triple digit guys roll half the track. C'mon Weege, your Jersey, U should know better
If you want them back out there after they are healed and they refuse to come than penalize them, not the guys who have been working their ass off at all the previous races
How about we put crocodiles and snakes in between triples and doubles???
That would be exciting !!! Lol
Depending on where the "reset" was, last year RV would have probably lost the championship, since he got hurt with 4 rounds to go, and Dungey may have won. I like Dungey, but no way that would have been a true reflection of who had the better season.
NNNNNOOOOOOOOOOO! Boyer just suggested the same thing in his last column and it is a stupid idea, Lets get one thing straight, S/X and MX are leagues above the drivel that Nascar has become. I think that other than the multi millionaires that the sport breeds for drivers it represents everything wrong in motorsports. The sponsors are targeting an audience certainly but I think that the motorcycle industry is closer to F1 intelligence. Less points is better all along but make each race count. There are no playoffs in racing. There is a season for a reason, MX is about consistently going fast. Draw the line here. the sport is great dont mess it up.
Like the idea, but to make it more fair to a rider like davi, he should start out with the 6 point lead but get a bonus point for every 5 or 10 points he is ahead of second place. This would make it a bit more fair that way if the rider in first has a huge lead, it still has somewhat of an advantage. He deserves it.
it will never happen!! I HOPE!!!
.If you want to change things up give a few points in the heat races.
How exactly does someone "luck into a title" over a 17 race series?
I usually prefer making a logical argument but in this case all I have to say is NASCAR sucks. It hasn't been interesting in over 30 years.
For the record the Daytona 500 was the last Nascar event I will ever watch. 1 pass in the whole damn race and I had to wait for the last lap to see it. A 1 lined track that was a mile wide is ridiculous, I cant even remember who won but there was a woman involved. That Race represented everything I despise about motor racing, and apparently it is more dangerous for the fans than the drivers. Oh ya sponsorship.... I actually followed Clint Bowyer because his brother Andy writes on this site and I know he was the #7 Jack Daniels car then he switched to Cheerios but I dont have who is sponsoring him now....or what number he is. NASCAR is messing up bad lets learn from their mistakes
Bad idea. SX and MX are both long series and ultimately reward consistency. The example that MXBob gives is prime - RV won in 2012 because he was so dominant and consistent. So much so that he did not even need to score points in the final three rounds to win the title. Boring....maybe, but he was the best guy and no one could possibly argue otherwise. Just like at the mid-point of this year - Davi has been the best overall rider. Wiping out everything he has done to tighten up the points chase would be a joke. Yeah Barcia, Reed or Stewart might have a shot at the title this way, but at the same time A) Barcia needs to learn to be good on the bad nights in the 450s, B) Reed needs to figure his bike out before Daytona, and C) James needs to avoid bad luck and part of that is doing the work to be 110% fit at the start of the season. There was a series points reset in case you missed it - JANUARY 5th, 2013!
No offense Weege, but I get the feeling the only reason you proposing this is because media favorites like Stewart and Reed are virtually out of the title contention this year, but both could be showing signs of life in the last half of the year. Well, tough s*** where were they in the first 8 rounds?
What I said in the other column.
From a young age, I knew football sucked, but when I was riding pro at 16 and a football player told me that motocross wasn't a sport, I REALLY knew football sucks. In the bad way. I've held a grudge against them ever since, and I love to tell people this exact sentence:
"Football is a sport where a bunch of fat guys run around in a field chasing the skin of a pig, tackling each other, then they get up, slap each other on the ass and say, "Let's all take a shower together."
I'll say nothing about the rather lewd relationship between the quarterback and the center, hiking the ball. If that doesn't scream "San Francisco," I don't know what does. It doesn't escape me that once they assume the position, they stay there for an extended time period while the quarterback engages in small talk with players on both sides of the center, probably saying to them, "Do what I say or you're next."
@BillC--Dont say it will never happen... Look at whats happening to the Nationals.. Saturday races--SUCKS, timed qualifyers--SUCKS... 450 race BEFORE the final 250 race--SUCKS.. and now the last 2 Nationals of the most prestigeous outdoor series in the World is being built in a flat dry lakebed and the infield of a flat car racing circut... ALL IN THE NAME OF A BIG TV PACKAGE.... So if they thing they will make more money out of it..they will do it.. It all comes down to money anymore..
@SpeedShifter--if you think football is full of fat guys, you are either blind or just dont pay attention.. These guys are ripped, huge, and insanely fast.. and hit like tanks.. I have alot of respect for any athlete who can play at the highest level.. Dont care what the sport.. If they say moto isnt a sport, who cares, its usually just their own insecurity speaking..
@The real mofo-- I agree, the Nationals have made a few changes recently I didnt think I would ever see.. And I dont like any of them.. It has really taken the weekend away for me.. Used to be able to get to Red Bud on Friday night. What the qualifyers on Saturday, then head to the amateur track and what the racing there into the night, then fireworks then the big pro race on Sunday, what a weekend.. Now its hit the track Friday night, a few amateur races, some fireworks, then the pros on Saturday and go home, just for better TV package.. WooHooo!!!!
Dont say it wont happen guys..And BILLC, I will say again NO WAY should they give points for a freakin' Heat race.. sounds like somebody trying to get points for Stewie to me..LOL!! Nobody else would benefit..
I think this is a bad idea. Traditional sports have to use a playoff system because it is the only way to determine a champion. The Baltimore Ravens can only play one team at a time, so there had to be a playoff tournament for them to earn the championship.
This isn't necessary in motorsports. OK, it may work in drag racing because, like team sports, they too only compete against one driver at a time. Even NASCAR admitted their Chase was a gimmick to keep people watching during football season.
In Supercross, every weekend is a championship race. All the best riders compete against each other all the time. A championship should be about putting together the best overall season, not the best April and May.
This idea sucks. I hate Nascars chase. No NASCAR fan cares that Jimmie won 5 championships n a row. If he did it in the old format people would worship him, but in the chase it feels fake.
I do like the changes the nationals have made, but now on the change of tracks. Lake Elsinore and Utah sucks. Muddy Creek will be a great Naional but the last two will be awful to watch
I don't get it? We're in the middle of one of the most 'top end' talent laden seasons in the history of the sport! Unfortunately all but one of the title threats have had bad nights either from bad luck or mistakes? If Reed hadn't have had his two first lap incidents which collected a bunch of guys this thing would be a lot tighter!
Millsaps is completely worthy of his current status but he's also been very fortunate.
How about instead of screwing with the points system we put some better effort into track design, soil composition and maybe even bike restrictions? There seems to be better action in the 250 class maybe that's what they all should be riding?
Also...with these 15 min mains I say run two a night.
The reason NASCAR even created the chase was to draw interest during football season. We don't need a chase. The only thing I would change is add 10 laps o each main event.
@ jmx411
Dude your comments on Utah are lame at best ....It has not happened yet!! Wait till they get a race under there belt.. Then talk shit! First off I was out there 1 week ago on business. I own the land that is adjacent to the sports park & have owned it for years.about 700 acers of farm land in all in I sold them 45 acres for Egrees purposes for emergency exist, 14 monthes ago. Actually they would have a nice outdoor SX track on that facility. The MX track I wil save my words for another time. SX it would make a nice alternitive to the small indoor tracks.. Just food for thought...
Sorry I hit the send key before finishing !
jmx411-- You like the changes for the Nationals?? I dont--I hate timed qualifyers--it make the track very one-lined, since they arent racing, they do note have to find alternate lines, they just stay in the fast line for one lap to get a good time.. And the 2nd 250 moto being last is wrong.. The 450 class is supposed to be the Premiere class, and should run last.. Its like a Varsity game being played before a JV game. instead of vice versa.. And Saturday races suck, the shops are open on Saturday, and the racing is Sunday, thats waht it is supposed to happen.. Now you have to close a shop to go to a race if they wish to go.. Or miss a race..
Ten laps to the main would be cool to see but you thought the lappers were bad now! ..
If you get lapped you should pull off the track and get credit for where you finished at that point ..It would motivate those riders maybe to push there pace,but that would ramp up the problems of more crashes and we dont need that..
@Ripdown--2 races a night would be awesome.. but it wont EVER happen, it wont fit into the precious TV package..
With change things should get better. Right?
The things that come to my mind.
1. Venues need to accommodate more of the USA. I have read there are major obstacles to securing dates and other objections to getting a host to hold an event. Is it possible to find locations that aren't stadiums to utilize? (Think Daytona) There are masses who want to attend but won't travel. Starved areas most likely to sell-out. It is sad to see half filled stadiums. Spread the love.
2. Races are too short. Timed main events. 450-20 min. have white flag.15 for 250's. Maybe have LCQ's same laps as heat laps. No fan would object to this.
3. Boring runaways. This is tricky. Those best prepared should run up front. The mantra has been " I need to start up front". Well it is good for rider but sometimes the event fails to deliver on excitement. This might seem crazy but I would like to see a lottery draw for the main event gate pick. Heat races would have to award points to keep them relevant. 3 points for first, 2 for second and 1 for third. Give 1 point for first in LCQ. Take only the top 8 from the heat race so the LCQ could transfer the top 4 to main. More riders to battle it out for the main. The position you finish in the heats and LCQ decides the order of the lottery draw plus gives you a chance to add to your point total.
This might not suit the riders and teams but it will change the outcome of the holeshot runaway predictability and clumping of the elite. This idea stemmed from the round where Ryan Dungey won from 20th gate pick. Even if you don't root for him how could you not applaud that performance. Some of the best racing comes about from the best racers starting further back in the pack.
4. If the process takes more than a couple minutes to explain how a Champion is crowned you will not gain newbies as in fans. I didn't like losing the semi's awhile back but it is a more simplified conversation. I want the series to continue as a whole.
5. This will probably never happen but I will throw it out there. A good bit of the fan base loves 2 strokes. Could bring affordability for weekend warriors and profits for manufactures.
150cc 2 stroke Class
350cc 4 stroke Premier Class
Good or bad comment away.
DM is Da Mistro, Playing this series like a fiddle.
I'd say the reading comprehension in this comments section is at about a first grade level. The article is a 'what if' , it's meant to be thought provoking. Dummies.
Last years championship was pretty anti-climatic. I can't tell you how many times i've watched Vegas and it meant nothing over the years. Try it for a season.
@Scottkw34 calm down killer. Yes, the article is suppose to be thought provoking.. and the people are expressing their thoughts. the points structure wasn't the reason the championship lacked excitement last year. People crashed out plain and simple. the four stokes have completely changed the game, and the tracks in my opinion have yet to evolve to provide the best racing. As I mentioned in the "450 chase" article. bring back split starts, Open the tracks back up. varying track width.. and why does just about every section need jumps corner to corner. Open it up a little and let's race!
@therealmofo: I'm sorry, but football players are fat guys running around in a field, chasing the skin of a pig. They tackle each other, then they get up and slap each other on the ass and say, "Let's go take a shower together."
Name one other sport that involves such shocking behavior.
This is where marketing and profit start to take a front seat in the sport and racing takes a back seat. The sport is exciting enough, if people think that it is boring then perhaps they are not true fans. Making a change to the points structure and the format of the series to provoke "more exciting racing" just seems wrong to me. Perhaps I'm a purist but I believe that the racing is great the way it is. Track design needs some work, but tracks like Atlanta are a step in the right direction, more diversity, more challenge.
On a side note, complaining about runaway wins by talented athletes being boring to watch is ridiculous, that is what all the hard work is for, there are battles all over the track that are exciting to watch sometimes the racing in the pack is the most interesting, but since it isn't for the win people seem to value it less. How many times over the past few decades has the sport been dominated by one person, more than a few I would say.....so why has this become a problem all of a sudden?
I think we are all off base here. He mentioned he was talking to some NBC exec last year and the exec wanted to know what they could do to entice RV back earlier. When RV went out their ratings went down. Its all about money and ratings for the TV companies which leads to more advertising for the sponsors. When the sponsors get to promote their product to a larger target audience the greenbacks start rolling. They don't care about what is fair or not for the riders its what marketing will bring in the most money. It has ruined other sports so lets not let it ruin this one. Let me tell you something, NBC doesn't know how to broadcast sports period. I tried to watch the RV special the other day and face the nation was on but it was titled Villipoto's Special(can't remember the title) and none of their SX is live. DM, RV and RD have worked their buts off to get on top this season and they don't deserve for that to be taken away. But when you look at it from the sponsors point of view, they move more products, make more money hence having more capital for the sport. Who/what is the focus here $$$$$$$$$$$$
@Gills Good points - I agree!!!
Firstly I hate the idea of a chase.
I have never agreed with dropping your worst finish, or half a season not counting after a certain point (to some extent) or just trying to manipulate an exciting finish.
The reasons I dont see it working is the variables.
firstly the start.
even with qualifying and even if you get 20th gate pick you still have a chance at the holeshot or at least a good start.
20th in qualifying does not mean starting 20th.
The tracks.
Cannot imagine the "chase" would have us on the edge of our seats watching 6 races like dallas.
You are reliant on the track builder building a track the guys can race on.
also its all well and good talking about getting injured and being able to be fit for the end of seaosn finale.
not so good if you have a huge points lead have it taken away from you and then get taken out (JS7/CR22) in the second corner.
even if it is just a racing incident.
and if you qualify for the "chase" by winning a main even. do you come out ride the first 6 rounds get a couple of wins and then sit on your couch until the chase starts?
Maybe the chase should be over 5 rounds and at each round you have to ride a different OEM's bike.
RV2 on the monster energy/red bull KTM this week.
JS7 back on the Yamaha also.
CR22 racing the 2 2 motorsports monster energy,rockstar racing suzuki.
Or we just have round one of the chase brought to you by KTM and all 20 riders race KTM.
then next week its over to kawsaki.
The chase idea truly sucks.
p.s, I dont think the chase would have been very exciting when Mc, RC or JS were winning 14 of 15 rounds either.
Basically the most stupid idea ever.
What are we missing here...Jason was talking to the NBC guy about ratings.....THE NBC GUY WANTED RV BACK TO UP THE RATINGS!
What do they care IF Feld are paying them to air the show....?
This is what FELD have said all along...riders dont get paid, teams dont get paid because WE are paying for the TV coverage...
WTF.
Anyway.
SX Chase = Shithouse idea.
1 Day Nationals = Shithouse idea.
Weege missed this one by a Texas mile!! The CHAMPIONSHIP is for the racer who finishes with the most points for the whole series, not for someone who rides around in tenth place week after week and then shows up and wins only 1 race during the whole season!! Why not just have 17 champions if that's what he's looking for??
LOL bd200 not trying to help JS at all. I am still pulling for RV but the heat points would not be a bad thing. Thay do it in SnoCross. It would help guys like Wiemer. Brighton ect if they get a good start they can hold off some faster guys for 8 laps. I am not pushing for it but wouyld not be mad about it either.... and you guys are right I, i said it will never happen...I HOPE.. because like you said it could.
@ speedshifter
Be careful! I know where you going with this! Lol
Some people may get butthurt about their butthurt sport!!! Lol
Is that why 49rs were a dominant team??? They dominated " San Francisco " style! Hahaha
On the side note, you should let one of those fat boys take your bike around your local track for 2-3 laps. Guarantee you they wouldn't finish one! Also, they wouldn't be able to bend over for a while!!! Lol
Dummies! If the goal is too lose half the fan base, a chase format would be a great idea. This sport has roots that run deep. I am sure many of the old timers would drop off.I for one would never watch a SX again. Bad idea! If it isn't broke, don't attempt to fix it! My opinion..
This is the Dumbest Idea I have ever heard, You bring Anything Nascar over to this sport and you would kill it for good...................
Whats with all these gay refrences I am reading with the "butt-hurt " stuff.. Are guys trying to come out but dont know how?? Or are they just 14 years old... Saying somebody is "butt-hurt" ?? Really???
@BillC--I know you are big into snowmobiles, but points for a heat race is silly.. Its for qualifying period.. Your reward for doing good in the heat is you get to continue racing.. If a guy gets 3 or 5 points for a heat race, and he is running 2nd.. and the guy in front didnt get any heat race points, what incentive does the guy in 2nd have to push for first place?? He is already going to win the overall because of his heat race finish right.?? So he can run safely in 2nd place to secure the overall.. I dont like points for simply qualifying..
@Shepster-- I thought the RV Special was on CBS--NOY NBC!! NBC broadcast the Nationals, and CBS shows Supercross, they are not the same..
Weege - must of us on here I think, will agree to give you a "reset" on this one...
What if you could drop one race, that would give someone to "go for it" and not have to play it safe. RV would love to drop A1, JS7 would love to drop Dallas. I think it would be a lot more fair than a reset.
So no one watches Arenacross? Might be some clues there.
Imagine this: Longer main events are required. A "split start" format, but half of the gate starts, say 2 seconds late. This would be the fastest group. There needs to be points given to heat race finishes (makes it hard to sandbag) and starting order will be set by heat race finish.
What could we get from this format? VERY hard to have "runaway" race leader. Lots of leaders, continuous passing.
Fast guys are always going to end up in the front at the end of the season, it's what they do.
While this is a quite simplified description, the action could be tremendous and the marketing guys would be thrilled. Might be a way to keep the racing close and exciting for the ENTIRE main event(s).
Before some of us start screaming at this idea, try to imagine this: How exciting is it when a rider falls at the first turn, re-mounts and does the "come from behind/underdog" thing all race long? What if there were 5 or six of these guys doing that, everytime there was a race? The DM,RV, JS RD, TC, ET guys are always going to be in the hunt, but the hunt is going to be exciting.........
@AGMAN (and to all who could possibly concede to this crap) - In the words of the Legendary Kenny Watson - "Wah Wah Wah"
My favorite racing Phrase - HTFU - Harden The F@*K Up...
What if you could drop one race, that would give someone to "go for it" and not have to play it safe. RV would love to drop A1, JS7 would love to drop Dallas. I think it would be a lot more fair than a reset.
What if you could drop one race, that would give someone to "go for it" and not have to play it safe. RV would love to drop A1, JS7 would love to drop Dallas. I think it would be a lot more fair than a reset.
Expanding on what MX Bob wrote earlier about Villo would have gone down in the playoffs.
When a SX rider goes down the playoffs are over for him, his team and sponsors. Complete end of championship chances. Everyone on the team goes home.
In football, baseball, basketball and all group team sports if 5 players go down they are still playing and have a shot at winning. Even in NASCAR there are few driver injuries that put them out for the season. And if there are drivers hurt they just get another driver that starts and expands on the points earned.
Bowyer wants everything NASCAR, Even the name of his column REV UP (or what ever) comes from his idol bugda,bugda, bugda, bugda, ratchet jaw Waltrip. And Weigandt wants to Shaneen or Sal mascara'man (or something like that).
Hmmmm.....this one doesn't look like it's going over well. But hey, that's the point of throwing it out there! Just wanted to think about it, and if you don't think it's a good idea, that's what the comments section is for.
I think PeacefulEZfeeln summed it up best--team sports need a playoff/tournament because all the teams can't play each other at the same time. In racing, everyone races each other every week. So it's different.
As for my convo with the NBC guy last year (who asked "Why won't Villopoto come back if he's healed up?"): I think he was just curious more than anything. In other sports they cover, when an athlete is ready to play, he plays. You don't hear them say, "Yeah but my team is having a bad year so why come back for the last part of the season? What do I have to gain?" So I think he was just curious as to the differences between MX and other sports. Would he have liked to see Villopoto come back to race Dungey in the last few races? Sure. But, wouldn't you have, too?
Also, be careful when you say things like "I don't care about TV ratings or people making money." Safe to say that if it weren't for TV ratings, teams would not have sponsors, and riders wouldn't get paid. Millsaps' dream season, in fact, is fueled by the exposure provided by a solid TV deal. Would Rockstar have ponied up this much if there weren't as many people in the stands and people watching on TV? No. So, you have to have a balance. What's the best way to help the privateers? Help the teams get enough exposure so they can get more sponsorship money and hire more riders.
Anyway, thanks for reading. If the Chase ever comes to supercross, I'll be sure NOT to ask for the credit!
'not guys that lucked into a title' - after 17 races? If your logic stems from this line, you are a dope.
since nascar uses the "chase"
they have it wrong... it should be every race winner and top ten in points!
win and in [even road courses]
then there will be desperation / drama at the final pre chase rounds for ya !
so why is this bad for motocross ?
i dont like nascars "chase"
I think hard work deserves reward
if you win by a bazillion pts then you do.
i think the AMA should adopt this series structure for supercross
2 classes [maybe 3]
PRO - all races count vegas is double points
PRO -AM - [no east / west] 12 races count
vegas is 13th round and double pts
Am - 8 races count vegas is 2x pts
i have other ideas... my brain is so BIG it HURTS
the B is out !
Bad ideas. Leave motocross and supercross alone. Our sport is a different breed and is unlike your stick and ball sports and should remain so.
I was going to post a rant asking anyone that will listen to resist any injection of NASCAR-ism into our sport. I don't feel you can compare such sports (and the needs of fans whose attention span has deteriorated accordingly) with supercross/motocross, And, let's be honest, supercross and motocross must be considered togeteher. In no other sport do world class athletes compete in two different disciplines of the same sport, at the highest levels, back-to-back, in the same year.
It appears, though (after scrolling way, way down), that I am part of the majority on this issue.
Our racers are at it for almost 10 months a year in two different series. Each of these series' stand alone but are influenced profoundly by the other. Strategic decisions are made with both in mind and this complexity sets our fans apart.
The Chase format might be necessary to sell a few more servings of chili cheese fries to spectators who are just as likely to go fishing as pay to watch a motorsport.
But we don't need it here.
See you all in Daytona.
We fear change....
I love it!
Crap Idea!!!! What is it with the powers that be and their henchmen always trying to change sx or mx to be more like other forms of racing? We like sx and mx BECAUSE it's unique. If I want to watch some dumb ass "chase for the title" I'll grab a busch light, throw on my wife beater and tune into fox to watch em boys turn left all day.
Thanks for the comment Weege, glad guys like you are paying attention to what the fans want.. That is important..
Jason I like that people are thinking about options to better the copetition of the sport. It does seem like the current system eliminates any rider that has a bad race - so I like the idea of one throw away race. Your idea doesnt suck, and the TV people will have a say in this, no doubt. Also, remember that 90% of the people commenting on these boards are 12 years old.
Horrible idea..... and I love football and I watch NASCAR too, but I HATE the chase! The exact thing you're trying to prevent, having one bad race grenade your championship hopes, goes UP in a shorter series! One bad finish from a chase driver and its over, no matter how strong they were for months. And you absolutely cannot compare football or any other TEAM sport. Put me down for f@#k no!
@bd200 you are correct sir, I misspoke!!
Good comments Weege thanks, some of us here already mentioned what you summed up!!
I would not be opposed to giving a point to the winner of heat races, I would not be opposed to dropping your worst race- from this standpoint , In a 17 rnd series elite riders can have a fluke race or be taken out by a lapper or have a mechanical- the other 16 races will still tell the true story of who is best.
RD would have been given back his mechanical dnf- RV would have still won because he had a dnq- both were clearly flukes in 2011
Lets say DM barely kept the lead and had a derailed chain so he got 3rd instead of 1st in the series- dropping the bad race would seem like a fair thing- the rules would be understood and apply to everyone.
Resetting points is totally unfair and really doesn't represent the real champ for the whole season.
Good call checking back in Weege. you of course know the message boards are 50/50 with BS but it is passionate BS. I am adamant there is no need to eliminate anyone from the series until the series is over. Too many down sides to the chase with only un educated fan benefits, There is really no lack of excitement in the sport for a fan is there? I would like to re-iterate one point from before, Learn from NASCAR mistakes dont reproduce them. Also I would be re missed if I didn't offer a solution with my dislike of the chase idea...
Match racing would be a playoff that Could be interesting and it is purely a filler at Arena cross. If the 50/50 proceeds from the stadium were up for grabs each night..... there would be some excitement..... 2 laps run what you brung, top 20 qualifiers from Practice get entered from the whole evening regardless of bike size, If you are involved with the championship and dont want to risk it? then there is a by to the next round for the lucky opponent.DASH for CASH! put some money in the riders pockets
Weege tell the truth is this the first thread you have read this year because you knew we would go nuts?? LOL
NASCAR needed a chase, their fan base could not count as high as the point standings got after 26 races!
Horrible idea....just like many others have said, this is Motocross and/or Supercross not Nascar.
I still haven't accepted the "lifetime" number stuff that got started a while back.
I would like to see the riders EARN the numbers they use in the next season.
I didn't agree with changing our sport by dumbing it down so the general public would feel more comfortable or relate to it as they do Nascar. I know it's all about the mighty dollar...but who really benefits? the rider? the team? or the promoter?
BEST new idea in a long time, I LOVE it but I am also a traditional sports fan. Definitely would need some tweaks so that a guy like Millsaps is rewarded for his efforts with a huge advantage but the idea of starting the season over again (like every other major sport does with the playoffs) is great. I think some people are losing sight of reality in that TV ratings = money = growth of the sport. Look at what March Madness has become, can you imagine how much money and great teams there would be in our sport with that type of enthusiasm? We've had what, 4 teams fold this year? Ideas like this, outside the box to grow the sport should be strongly considered.
Been a moto fan since 1973, started racing in 1978. The Chase format for Supercross is a great idea, Supercross is for the non hard core fans, where the BIG money is, the advertisers are there, etc. The CHASE would bring excitement and hype, perfect for a TV based sereis.
Leave MOTO the same basic format. Toughest man wins. The outdoors will never have the non core following that supercross does, face the facts. Might more teams/riders go Supercross only, yes. OUTDOOR will never die, nor will it ever be as big as supercross.
KFC bucket go Boom
@LBiggie--@Lake Lanier--You are both so wrong on so many levels.. Restart the season again?? Really?? this is not team sports.. A guy with a big lead like Millsaps gets screwed six ways to Sunday,, thats not excitement.. What is exciting is seeing a guy like Millsaps who has NEVER been in this position before keep his lead that he worked so hard to get.. And see if he can keep his Cinderella season going all the way to Vegas.. THAT is exciting.. THE CHASE as you guys call it (NASCAR fans we have to assume) isnt helping NASCAR--so DONT bring that over-hyped crap to our sport.. Some things are just pure and should be left alone--big money and greed has ruined alot of sports, we dont want it to ruin this one..
NO MATTER WHAT ANYBODY ON HERE SAYS:
It is broke! The best all around rider will seldom wins the championship going forward because of the parity and the fact that track designs and 450's don't allow for any real racing now days. Start should NEVER equal 90% of the win!!!
Well here is my $.02. Chase? No.. I like the idea of points in heat race. 1 point to the winner. Then restructure the final point 25 for 1st, 23 for 2nd, 22 for 3rd, down to 5 for 20th. then you can give 1 point to 6th in lcq up to 4 points for 3rd. That way having a bad night would not be so costly? Or just leave it the hell alone. A midseason reset? Don't we already have that when they go outdoors?
I guess to answer the question, "how do u get a rider to comback at the end of a season after he has been injured and has recovered?" That's a tough one. I seems that is all in the heart of the competitor. You can not make someone do what they do not want to do, right?
I guess to answer the question, "how do u get a rider to comback at the end of a season after he has been injured and has recovered?" That's a tough one. I seems that is all in the heart of the competitor. You can not make someone do what they do not want to do, right?