by Jason Thomas
The Moment: Dragon Slayer
Monday, February 25, 2013 | 3:50 PM
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The Moment generally tries to analyze the key turning point in every weekend’s result. Many times it is hard to decide which of the many events are more telling than others. For Atlanta, it was one rhythm section that would tell the tale between winning and losing.
During track walk, most of the riders congregated in this one section of the track. There were a few rollers coming out of the first turn, followed by a triple into a 180-degree berm. Consider this the second section after the start. Coming out of the berm you had two basic choices, right or left. Both sides featured a dragon back, but the left and right sides of the obstacle were built significantly differently. The left side (outside) had a larger first bump, followed by smaller bumps up the dragon back but with one less bump at the top, making it much lower. The right side had a smaller first bump but with one more bump at the top, it was clearly designed to help riders blitz off the top bump and jump over the next single. Basically it came down to this, if you stayed left, you had to slow down drastically to downside the dragon back and then 2-3-2 through the rest of the section. This was the overwhelmingly more popular line simply because it was easier. If you went to the right, you had to blitz off the top bump to the next single. According to many riders, that wasn’t too difficult, but the next 3-3 was the problem. Watching those who went right, they had to seat bounce very hard to make the first 3, and as soon as they landed that, they had to triple again right into a tight right hand 90 degree turn.
“I was doing the rhythm section a little bit different than James and it was slower." - Ryan Villopoto
Simon Cudby photo
To me, the first triple looked really tough to do. The seat bounce was up to a higher landing, and I saw Ryan Dungey, RV and most of the elite guys case it at one point or another during the day. As with most sections, the more difficult line to the right was also the faster of the two. During practice, almost everyone would go to the right for their qualifying lap. Being able to nail that line lap after lap is a different story, though. It was interesting to see who would gamble by going to the right and who would go left and try to be consistent.
When it comes down to why James Stewart was able to keep RV2 at bay during the main event, I feel this section made the difference. James went to the faster right side every lap and had it absolutely dialed. Villopoto chose to stay left and try to wait James out. I think he felt James would either tire or make a big mistake and he wouldn’t have to force it. Ryan was visually faster in the turns and would creep up to James all the way around the track, but then, like clockwork, James would go right and Ryan left and voila, the gap was back. If you are a member of Monster Energy Kawasaki or Ryan’s fan club, this had to be maddening. I felt that Ryan was very capable of going to the tougher line and closing the gap but clearly he didn’t feel comfortable with it. When asked about this very topic after the race, this is what he had to say.
“I was doing the rhythm section a little bit different than James and it was slower. I struggled in the turn after the rhythm section all day. I just felt doing that the way I was doing it was going to be consistent for 20 laps. It wasn’t the dragon’s back, it was that next turn after tripling in there. I just struggled in that turn all day, so.
Was there a point where you tried to turn it up, and then got sketchy?
“I rode consistent through the whole time. I think on paper that was four tenths lower doing it that way [the dragon back rhythm]. I was decent, pretty good or the best on that other part of the track, or a little bit quicker on the rest of the part of the track. So I would just give it up there and catch back up, give it up there… and just play cat and mouse type of deal. You know, when you gives James a lead like that you’ve got to pressure him into a mistake, especially on a track like this.”
“It was tough. I was holding my breath every time. I think it was maybe worth a tenth of a second if I got it right, but if I didn’t get it right it was way slower." - James Stewart
Simon Cudby photo
It’s interesting to me that Ryan knew that his line was slower but didn’t change it up even toward the end of the race in an attempt to close the gap. I expected him to change his approach by lap 12-15 if things weren’t going to plan. A rider of his caliber has no problem jumping a section even if they aren’t comfortable doing it. I know he has had more than his share of his crashes this year so maybe that played a role in this thinking. If he crashed this weekend and gave even more points to Davi, the title hopes would look bleak. The championship is always in the thought process so this could have very well been the case. As for James, he has nothing to lose at this point. His only goal now is to run up front and win races. I felt that he has improved steadily over the last few weeks and this was the next natural step in that progress. I think he may have won Dallas also had he been in the race. As for that key section, he weighed in after the race with this.
“It was tough. I was holding my breath every time. I think it was maybe worth a tenth of a second if I got it right, but if I didn’t get it right it was way slower. That was the only part of the track that I felt like I didn’t really feel like I could do that every lap, easily. It was hard.”
When it’s all said and done, there are dozens of decisions during a race that can determine the outcome. But with the field so tight this year, choices like this rhythm section can really stand out as difference makers. The three point difference between first and second may not seem like much now but if RV2 loses the title by three or less, he might look back to Atlanta and wish he had gone with the road less traveled.
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Nice insight Jason. Really enjoying your perspectives each week.
I agree Ripdown, good read. This seasnon is very odd. There was almost no passing again this week and the gap between the guys stayed the same every lap all the way back to 9th!! The races are won and lost in the first turn every week. Not so fun to watch. They need to make the tracks much harder so the better guys can shine and we can see some passing. It's single file everywhere. so many guys soing the same speed and it is because of the tracks.
We need more dragon backs like that, it separates the men from the boys, obviously rv didnt want to risk it hmmm maybe that air fork wasnt working right??
And all the keyboard thumpers keep talking about how the tracks need to be more technical. If you recall, KDUB specifically cited one of the reasons for his retirement was the speed you had to have to master the ever growing technicality of the tracks. Mistakes and coming up short HURT! ASK BARCIA! Hard to pass when you're NOT FASTER than the guy you're trying to pass.
i think there should just be more moderately harder sections thru out the whole track there should be the option on most of the sections harder or easier
I was very critical of this track when seeing the animation, but I have to give the designers their props. I didn't know the dragonbacks were designed like this so I'll apologize - but we still need more whoops!
This is also quite maddening for the JS fans (like, me - awe hell I'm a fan of everyone). None of the fans are surprised when he goes out and gets the job done. It just seems like pulling teeth these days for him to really shine.
@Top Jimmy--grow up--post like yours is what creates animosity towards riders and their real fans...
Those types of things I think is what the guys will have to do to get wins with this crowded field.. There is so much talent and speed out there it is all starts and maybe one spot on the track to try and make up time.. And like Stewie said--it has to be right every time or its slowing you down..
Yeah JT, good article. You are a way better journalist than a SX rider.
Nah, just kiddin. LOL.
Not going to lie, surprised RV couldn't jump that line consistently but I'd rather see that instead of him crashing out which he can't afford to do. I don't think RV jumping that line would have necessarily changed the outcome of the race but those extra few points would have been nice. I think he would have tried to beat JS if he could have, but at the same time I could believe that the risk/reward scenario wasn't worth it for him if he believed it could cause him to crash at some point over the 20 laps. Luckily for JS, he doesn't need to make these decisions since he's essentially just a spoiler at this point.
Also @ Top Jimmy..... What did he speak of? Being a non-contender in a championship for the 7th series in a row? (yes you read that correctly, 2010 SX/MX, 2011 SX/MX, 2012 SX/MX, 2013 SX) Troll...
I'd like to think I know SX pretty well but still have no idea what a dragon back is, anyone care to give me an idiots explanation?!
Will we ever come up with a track design that will suit the riders and make the racing interesting? Stewie knew where to make up time on the track. It was obvious this track had a lot of personal challenges.
BillC, you say they need to make the tracks harder so the top guys can shine...isnt that what the dragonsback just did? Your guy wasnt doing the harder but faster way over that jump so he lost, plain and simple. Sounds like you got exactly what you wanted, a track that seperated the more skilled riders from the rest.
I was on the front row right in front of this section, it was pretty gnarly for the C and B riders in practice. Glad Bubba got back on top of the box but it was kinda of a boring race. My two cents is, Give Atlanta a second race in late April or early May, make it at Turner Field, and bring back the '89 or '90 track, two of the best races in supercross history, if you're too young to rememer check them out on youtube, they were wide, multi-lined, and not that technical, you could always make the track a tad shorter with lower lap times, and make the main 25 laps,
@ JamesDunford, it was the section (and typically is) that is a mound of dirt that has normally 3 or so jumps or lips built over the top of one large or ( wider than usual mound of dirt ). So you are actually jumping or skimming bumps while on the jump. You will see them with a step up jump or two on the front side and a step down or two on the backside. Sometimes the middle still has the highest peak, Othertimes it is a series of 3 or 4 stacked bumps getting increasingly higher until the top.
Hope that helps, they are easy to spot.
@bd200 @retardcross - Don't feed the trolls, they'll keep coming back! I'm working towards cleaning up the comments section a little bit, so try to ignore non-contributing individuals in the meantime. Thanks guys.
Ref-man=Posterboy for birth control!
STRAIGHT UP!
Sure, who can deny RV as a true beast? The guy is insanely fast and his titles speak volumes. He is often believed to be THE BEST in the world, and deservably so. However, JS7 is creating a funk in Poto's head. James passed RV and got the heat win too in Dallas. Too bad they could not settle that in the main.
remember those people that said JS7 would never win again??????
Well, IMAGINE THAT!!!!
I hope his knee stays healthy enough to run for the title outdoors, too!!!
@Jordan--Your right--we just need to ignore them and not comment maybe they will go away--glad you are deleting the idiots..
ronniebarnhardt I figured someone would say that. But one risky section is not the same and a difficult track. if that makes any sence.
I have an idea.. I don't know if it would work but its worth a try.
Make each lane wider, and pull the insides of the corners back. This way the leader can't really run away but in every turn the rider behind will be able to make a block attempt. This may tighten the racing up for 5 way battles like the old days.
Multiple lines, wide lanes, big insides with humps. A battle up front slows everything down
So RC was right about the rythem sections was the key to the race. Fro said the sand. Whats the deal with the watch RV has on?
RV wears a heart monitor and watch. An old trick learned from Mike Larocco and Stanton, the original self trainers.
By the way, the CBS special on RV was awesome. He seems like a good guy
I guess when there is no drama we have to come on here and make something out of nothing, what we saw saturday night was ryan deciding weather the risk was worth the reward . On one hand he makes it passes james (maybe) james rode good. on another hand he messes up wads it up and gets another 16th or worse and hes done as far as the title goes. The bottom line is he made the right choice because he kept it on two wheels and finished in front of davi thats all that matters at this point
the reality is though is there will be a track now and again where james will not be able to get around ryan just like saturday ryan didnt get around james the only way you will really know who is faster is if they both race outdoors supercross tracks can only be ridden so fast and we often see the limits tested and riders end up on their heads
so here's to hoping james still has something to prove and lines up at hangtown
call me crazy but why do the tracks need to be different than last year or 4 years ago??? I mean go back study the tapes find the tracks that presented the best racing with the least crashes. what you see sometimes is crazy ideas because they are running out of them with the limited space they have. It doesnt have to be the same every year but im sure if they went back and studied the tapes they can fin a hand full of designs that seemed to work great as well as a hand full that did not
Sounds like James gambled (Dragons Back) and won this time around. Good on him. He rode good and looked good this time. Seems like RV gives JS alot of cushion now that JS is out of the championship. To me, JS is a MUST WIN just to save his net worth and wouldn't blame RV from giving him space like he did. RV may need those 3pts later down the road We'll see.
RV fans fret not. I think maybe he is learning to tone down the "high risk, high reward" attitude and finish 2nd or 3rd instead of risking it all to win and impress everyone. JS7 needed this win badly and he may never loose that mentality anyway. Good chance he crashes in the next week or so because he rides the edge so much more than everyone-now including RV. I think this makes RV an even bigger threat to win championships.
RCRDDW Villopoto has crashed way more this year. Just saying.
BTW I am re-watching it as we speak and RV was doing thedouble off the dragons back it was the triple into the corner before the whoops that he was not doing
I think the problem is the track designers are trying to be too creative. They're cramming as many obstacles as they can into one track. The track this weekend was way too busy. If you'll notice-almost the whole top 10 continued to follow each other with the same intervals the entire race. Racing the track and not each other. There was not even a run back down the start strait for them to blast. Why not go with the 2011 track again?!
the CBS special on RV was a very good and well done. thanks inside the moto crew. The one comment that struck me personally [ my oldest son had an aspiring pro BMX career] when he was sleeping on a 12 hour ride home after a bad weekend....i was still swiping the card. lol...ouch! it still hurts! lol.. ouch it still hurts.. But the things he learned on the Road....has taught him many things that he can apply to this day.
What is more interesting is that RV1 did not jump over the on off and triple into the corner after that first rhythm section most of the race. He chose to go on, off and into the turn. That seems to back up the fact he was not comfortable with the corner like he says in his interview.
IDK if he didnt rember or just didnt admit it but if you watch the main again he jumped it on lap 1 or 2 and got sideways and barely saved it and he never attemted it again
If you watch the first few laps, there was actually a LOT of passing going on. I don't buy that part. Lots of guys moving forward - and backward. And they all rode the same track and were faced with the same decisions.
Hey....What about the other 18 guys???? We've beat this horse to death......NEXT!
@SuperSXFanMan/Starplaya4Life--But Stewart was told NOT TO WIN remember?? do you still buy into that conspiracy theory?? Did you ever, or was that just an excuse??
RMF: It was a speculation, not a statement I have to live with the rest of my life. Go obsess on someone else please. I have yet to see you contribute anything meaningful. All I see you doing is posting personal insults - ALL THE TIME. Really, is that all you have? Furthermore, I have NO idea who "Starplaya4Life" is or was, but this is the ONLY name I've used. I may have logged on once as "StewartFan" or something when I first commented here, but definitely not that other name. I'm not who you think I am. At all.
22 points in the hand is worth more than 25 at the roulette wheel.
Villopoto didn't take the dragon's back because by taking the other line he could stay 1.5 - 2 seconds behind the crashaholic. If he would have taken the dragon's back, he would get taken out by getting too close. Taking the other line, he could keep a nice, easy pace and stay safe. Stewart is the only rider on the circuit who could ride down one straightaway and kill flagmen on both sides of the track.
HOW THE HELL???? I see others posting comments to my original post regarding Stewart taking the win and the Stewart haters crying the blues! Where has my post gone??? Hello Davi, Jason...... are you guys there? Apparently I didn't get the memo that the Racer X post are reserved for the "Everyone gets a Trophy" bunch! It might not be PC to have the back of Stewart these days so "BLAM" there goes my post so it's all fair now!
I guess I'll have to call my neighbor Wallenberg, the publisher of this operation and find out why my post was removed. Once again, you can hate Stewart all ya want, that's fine! He just happens to be the best that's ever thrown a leg over a bike and sorry if that tears your little feelings to pieces.
Sir James has spoke.............
RV may be wishing he had those 3 points at the end of the season. I doubt he lost on purpose. I really do. And let's face it - that's what some folks are saying. He lost on purpose because he didn't "need" to win. I think if you'll look back at this year's races, RV has been on the ground a lot more than JS7. And the one bad crash he had was the one where Reed took everyone out.
He didn't lose on purpose, he chose the lesser of two evils. 22 points or DNF.
Road less traveled? Maybe for Thoreau. Who?
It is more like Stew has Villo's number ... and both of them know that ....
The fact that he couldn't catch James for what ever reason - he was riding the same track track as James, right? - means James beat him, straight up.
To suggest this is the track's fault is ridiculous (JT didn't suggest this). RV is great and will win more titles, but to say RV had to ride the speed of the track but James was riding as fast as he can is not really a good theory. Maybe if CR22 had railed the corners better he would have caught and passed James too?
However JT is right, what the f was RV thinking not taking the right side of the dragon's back, like Alessi was?
I find it interesting that everyone is talking about Villopoto. Usually he is forgotten on these boards, quietly going about his racing, not causing any controversy etc. His name is in almost every post this week!
Dragonback......please. It doesn't matter how you do such an obstacle when behind because you still have to pass.......and no one is going to attempt passing on the dragonback when the winner is holding his breath there every lap. One obstacle does nothing in terms of track design, it is the track as a whole. We all watched and we all saw basically zero passing. The only passing we see is guaranteed when Alessi, Brayton, and Weimer get their starts and moe backwards. There are too many jumps and too many rhythm sections, where not much passing ever happens. Most passing happens in the turns, and SX turns have not allowed room or traction to make passes lately. If 30 seconds of a 45 second lap are spent jumping, not much passing will happen. If RV loses by 3 points, he can look at A1 where he rode like Brandon's first race.....not his 2nd in ATL. He wasn't getting past Stewart even if he was WAY faster and he wasn't any faster.
If posts are been deleted and these boards are being censored, that will immediately end my visiting the racer x blogs.
Dude you said that fit before !! GOOD RIDDENS
Tell Susan I'm going to hump her bump ! LOL !
I know this is not Facebook but it would be great to have a like button or dislike button to click on others comments!? Just an Idea RacerX...
Real simple what's going on. Stewart is off the championship points by a 'bit' and RV is running second behind that Millsaps guy, go Davi. Simple explanation is, RV was points racing and Stewart was going for the W. If Stewart would have muffed the section, that would have allowed RV to close up and attempt a pass elsewhere on the track. But would have to make the pass on Stewart a lap or two after Stewart made the mistake, which he never did. I personally can't wait for Daytona where there won't be space to race issues.
During one of those CBS specials, the top riders were commenting about JBS. They were all very flattering - saying that his speed was insane and he had more natural talent than anyone on the track. So I don't think RV was too shocked that he didn't win - because these guys know JBS is the posterchild for "go big or go home" too. And it usually doesn't turn out well. You can't really fault RV for expecting a washout or something from JBS. But when the man is on fire, there isn't anyone in 2013 that can hang. Maybe "father time" will have something for him later on :)
Lets just make it simple. RV got beat. Stewart is a faster rider on a bike. End of story
Let the craziness begin below!!
@speed shifter. Lmfao
Finding out that someone is now going to be "moderating" the posts here is the best thing I have read here for a while. I think that there are enough intelligent posters here to add good insight and observations rather than those who " fan the flames" in order to see their own post.......
EVERY good forum I have seen ends up being regulated...and it is always for the best.
@ rick .... Sometimes, but unfortunately the guys go racing for titles, not fast practice times ;)
still here
rickamatuzio
Glad to see Jame's going for it but I think RV's decision making is better for his position in the series as is Jame's for his. One thing I think has helped James racing his having his own personal clothing line which does't sell if he is out of a race or not on the box. I think this has actually been the biggest factor in his newfound tennacity this year and he really has me believing he'll be racing unless he's on the mule. Whatever it takes.
I think it is so great to have JT$ talking about the track it makes it almost like being there! I do agree with RV's logic he still has a way to go and JS& still wants to prove all of the naysayer's. I dont care what yall think there are 6 people that changed Motocross. Decoster,Hannah, RJ, MC, RC and Stewart, if I forgot someone I am sorry, let me know.
"He just happens to be the best that's ever thrown a leg over a bike and sorry if that tears your little feelings to pieces. "
Give me a break! He is a awesome rider, but the greatest he is not! How many title in how many years? Get over it!!!
@rick
I have made some comments before that were implying racerx showed favoritism toward a certain rider, and it was promptly removed, so yes, there is some censorship on here. My post had no foul language, no racial epitaphs or any mentions of violence, but it disappeared almost as soon as I posted it?
@Top Jimmy - We didn't open up the comments section so people can troll around, intentionally looking to reel in negative reactions out of other commenters. It's one thing to have an opinion, but it's an entirely different situation when someone is blatantly disrespectful to others. We want to create a positive experience for our readers and commenters. You can disagree with someone as much as you want, just please be respectful.
@rickamatuzio - See above.
@dschadel - Great idea, and we've definitely been discussing options such as this. We like the idea of giving you guys the ability to self-moderate and create your own community standards. Feel free to share any other constructive ideas. We're all ears!
@jjbigfly - Thanks! We're trying to make this a cooler place to hang out.
James has won once in the last 350 days. He is obviously the most gifted, fastest, amazing and untouchable rider there ever has been or ever will be.
Please pass the crack pipe on...you've had enough.
@Top Jimmy, wow your neighbor is the publisher? I'm impressed. You sound like the drunk guy getting arrested telling the cops, "my uncle's a judge and will have your badges!" Seriously dude it's all good. I think it's awesome you love Stewart so much. He is a great, and talented rider. Not my favorite, but still a future legend.
Jordan Roberts how about a REAL sign up to be on here so we can cut down on the one time posters or the guys with 10 accounts??
@Preston-- You have been one of the worse--sorry just stating facts,..
@Preston - Haha. Yeah, we're trying to move to threaded comments and make other improvements to the site that might help clean up the junk a little bit. Both racing and bench racing can become heated at times, but the last thing we want to see is a two-man feud take down the whole field--we're thinking this is where threaded comments can help out. Our web developer is pretty slammed at the moment, but we'll start working with him to improve the site as soon as he's freed up. In the meantime, fill us in on any ideas you'd like to see come to fruition. We'd like to hear what you think!
@Jordan-- I think a real sign in would be perfect.. I rarely comment on here anymore..tired of all the childish garbage.. I posted just a few times and have already seen guys trolling for me personally..
MXMOFO just posted a comment the other day looking for me and asking what did I think now!! Assuming I was upset or something stupid because Stewart finally got a win, and he "thinks" I dislike Stewie.. Its silly, childish and embarressing.. I have seen Preston do similar things.. And guys posting under 4 or 5 names, like we cant tell, because they have the same exact thought on a subject and they comment like they are a supporting person of their own view.. A real sign in from an E-Mail or something, and only one user-name per E-Mail or something would be nice..
@BillC - We've noticed this issue as well and have some solutions in mind. Having to comment through your Facebook account is NOT one of these solutions, though. We're working towards finding a nice middle ground between that and what we have now.
@bd200 - Those are some ideas we've been leaning towards. Thanks for the input!
yeah there is like 3 to maybe 5 guys on here who just want to talk about how there rider is better, over some really dumb stuff to
I think Atlanta was very interesting, and I'm not sure I'm glad RV didn't try that section and go harder for the win. On one hand he has gone down more than usual and I understand him backing off- he did look sketchy there a couple of times. On the other hand he did have the option to gain 3 more points and a win. I know he had to think JS was very likely to mess up somewhere and he wouldn't have to push harder. I feel if this was in Vegas and he needed it for the title he would have gone for it.