Monday Conversation: Ryan Dungey
Monday, February 4, 2013 | 9:30 AM
Alpinestars has been delivering performance of the highest level on the motocross tracks of the world for almost 50 years. Racing on Sunday and developing on Monday is a way of life at Alpinestars. Welcome to the Racer X Monday Conversation.
Tweet
Advertisement | Advertise with Us
Share
Comment
Email
PrintThings have not gone smoothly for Red Bull KTM’s Ryan Dungey so far this year, and when the much-talked-about air shock in his bike sprang a leak in his heat race, leading to a DNF, it looked like the bottom had dropped out of his season. Perhaps, literally, if you think about it. His LCQ was filled with rough moments, too. It was not looking good for the 2010 Monster Energy SX Champion. And then? He turned it all around. After the race, we stepped into Ryan’s motorhome and asked him about an incredible night.
Racer X: Are you going to forget this race anytime soon? This has to be one of the craziest races ever for you.Ryan Dungey: Yeah, definitely one of the craziest races as far as going to LCQ. Definitely haven’t had one of those before and then come out of that into the main. But a lot of people would kind of look at tonight like a lot of things went wrong, but a lot of things went right. Obviously the failure of the air shock was a bummer, but luckily it was in the heat race and not the main event. And then going to the spring shock for the LCQ and not knowing how that was going to react, and I kind of had to trust that and luckily everything went good. I fell down the second turn and had my work cut out for me.
Right. You actually did go down in the LCQ?
Yeah, down, away from the bike. But I got to it and was able to remount and I just put on a charge, and with about a half a lap to go I was able to make the pass into second which just squeaked her in there for the main. But the LCQ was a good race just for the fact that the bike felt good. And then obviously just kind of seeing how that felt before going in the main—kind of get a feel for it. So, knowing that, I actually lined up on the same gate for the main event. I knew I spun a little bit coming out of the gate because I leaned too far forward for the LCQ but I did a start on the hot lap and I spun again so I was like, I’m going to lean back a little bit, and I was able to shift a gear and I really drive it into the first corner. The first corner helped out tonight just for the fact that it wasn’t a complete 180; it almost was a two turn left-hander. So everybody would start breaking at the first part of the left-handed turn and I was able to drive around the outside and [Matt] Goerke, I just squeaked by his front tire and glad my tires stuck. So I found myself in fourth. We went over that single-double and then carnage was happening on the third turn. Got into second, made a pass into first after two laps. Got a little pressure in the beginning but opened up a little bit of a cushion and was able to ride my own lines and felt comfortable.
Ryan Dungey picked up his first win of 2013 in Anaheim.
Simon Cudby photo
Today this track was also key just to not make mistakes because the fact that everybody in practice, the seven or eight guys, were within a half a second. I think Stewy [James Stewart] threw down a fast one but we were all right there. So I knew was going to be a start and I knew that if I could get out front I could put down good laps and that’s what made things more comfortable. But it was all about getting a good start from the outside and luckily we did. It’s cool for KTM getting two wins tonight with both classes. Very exciting stuff. We’ve had some tough things happen but its part of racing but it’s good to build on this and just keep moving forward. I feel like we’ve been making progress with the bike little by little. And I feel like we have a good setup. So, keep carrying this forward.
I think you’ve worked hard the last couple years to not get too high, and not get too low. How much did that come in handy tonight? I’m sure after the heat or the last lap of the LCQ it would have been easy to just panic. Were you able to stay pretty calm through that?
Well, going to the LCQ is definitely not an easy deal. It’s kind of a worked-up situation. But keeping calm and all, it’s either make it or you don’t. So not really having a chance in the heat race and just having to go straight back to the truck was not ideal but at the same time it’s just a matter of keeping calm, being positive. They don’t give out points for the heats or LCQ. If you can get in the main and then do your work in the main that’s kind of what I was hoping. But I was hoping to take a situation that looked tough and make it good. So, I’m happy with tonight just coming out of the LCQ. I kind of always wanted to do that…
You have never done that?
I never came out of the LCQ and won a race. Usually if you go to the LCQ things aren’t really working for you. So at the same time it was cool to turn it around completely and get a win. Everybody was on our side, and it was really cool.
When did that problem with the shock start? When you ran over the starting gate? Did you know you had that problem until then?
I started the bike and I revved it and then I really revved it and I felt the rear kind of drop a little bit. And we had had that problem before in practice but we thought we fixed it.
Practice today or just in the past?
Practice at the test track, in the past. Once I did that I was like, ‘Oh man.’ So I lifted it up thinking it was just me and maybe I was just feeling something off. And then the gate, the 30-second board goes sideways and I started holding the bike half throttle, three-quarter throttle and the thing just dropped, dropped, dropped. And it was losing air. All in all, it’s definitely a new technology that still needs to be figured out but at the same time it could have been a lot worse. It’s a good technology. We’re slowly building on it. It’s young. Luckily it didn’t put a damper on things like it could have in the main event. Things didn’t go right but things went right, at the same time.
Dungey and Team Manager breathe a sigh of relief after a rough start to the night.
Simon Cudby photo
When was the last time you rode with the spring shock? Did you even know what to expect?
Well, that was the thing going into the LCQ. It was like, okay, I know I’ve got to get top two, but how is this thing going to react? And as easy as it sounds to say it but I was kind of fighting myself. You’ve got to trust it, you’ve got to have faith and believe it’s going to work. And to a point I kind of got over the fact that I had a spring shock on. I was just, all right, qualify. That first lap hitting things, I went into the whoops. The whoops was the biggest thing—how’s it going to react? And I went in and I’m like, this is good… and then I was almost out of them. I was like, all right, it’s good. So that was kind of funny. It’s really neat to have people on your side and support and definitely without the encouragement it would have been tough tonight.
I think people think on the outside when that shock is a problem that you’re back here screaming and yelling at everybody on the team. But instead everybody’s kind of working together.
If anything, sometimes it’s my fault when things go wrong and they don’t sit there and blame me for my things. But Roger [DeCoster]… I saw the expression on everybody’s face that basically said we’re sorry. But there’s no time to apologize. It’s not like the nights over. We’re not going to sit there and put our heads down. We had to keep our heads up. We had an LCQ to make it to the main, and to win the main event tonight was just the cherry on top for all of us. All the guys across the board just did an amazing job tonight, and have done an amazing job through the whole off-season and the whole beginning of this year.
Did you like this article?
Check out CAUGHT OUTSIDE
in our Latest issue of Racer X available now.
One of the most successful—and controversial—team managers of all time, Larry Brooks is looking to return to the races. Page 146.
Look for the verified symbol 
Impulse Studios
A fine example of what focus and mental toughness can do for a racer. Staying on an even keel saved his evening ...Lady luck has dealt him some strange cards this year but to is credit he has played them out to the best of his ability...Great job Ryan, and a good example to young riders coming up!!
Someone please grab a picture of a Fox air shock for young Mr. Dungey so he'll know the technology isn't actually new.
Maybe Rog needs to hire Bob Fox?
Actually the Single Air shock is new.
I've never seen RD5 ride like a madman before that LCQ happened. And then agian in the main..... that was the fastest i've ever seen him ride. If he can harness that beastmode at will over the rest of the season RV1(2) better not make any mistakes. And DM18 better stay on the podium or the Dunge might steal the title by Vegas.
I think it is funny that Dungey was talking about a spring shock like he had never rode with a spring shock before. Hadn't he been testing both and racing with both already this year so why wouldn't he know how the shock would react.
If you look up perserverence in the dictionary you will witness Ryan "clutch" Dungey's face.
Right on !
They say I cant pass, check. they say i cant win when everyone is healthy, check. they say i cant win unless i holeshot, check and check.
@ thatcatschaaf.....He probably hadn't used or tinkered with the spring shock at A3 so the settings on it hadn't been dialed in throughout practice and qualifying to suit the track. For guys of that calibre, going out on a different shock technology with base settings and no feedback from the day is a big deal if it isn't clicked properly.
On another note, in my opinion I find Dungey's day at A3 overall the best 450 performance of the year all things considered. He needs to get starts and get angry more!
It must be so awesome to belong to a team like the way the KTM teams appears to be. The group of people that Rog himself selected to look after Dungey have got be some impressive people with expansive backgrounds, like I wish that I had.
Q: What is more dangerous than RV getting the holeshot?
A: Mike Alessi. For totally different reasons. He looks like a small Robbie Knievel out there. Broom up the butt style all the way. I can admire Mike's tenacity but, if you can't jump some of the sections without going from one side to the next, trying to get holeshots is dangerous for all riders.
Air shock(s) on an MX bike aren't new, but good ones are. I raced the Fox shocks back in the day and again more recently in vintage.... they aren't that good and for one particular reason: They top-out badly. Anytime the rear is unloaded, it CLANGS to full extension. Sounds/feels wrong. A steel spring will not extend infinitely, it stops when it is extended, but the airshock isn't done extending, ever, until it tops out.
Have to believe that in these new ones, there is a top-out chamber or something to offset this. Also, they have mentioned a bleed valve or something on the new ones to limit heat effects on the spring rate. All these features introduce leak/stuck valve opportunities. What DOESN'T usually happen is that they simply lose their air because the basic shaft seal leaked, even thought that is what everyone fears when they look at one.
Started the night saying man what a bad luck day RD is having, Big crash in pratic, shock goes out on the line, tought LCQ then with a little help from reed all but holeshots the main and runs away with it. Left me thinking how lucky he was the shock blew then instead of the main!! funny how things go somtimes.
Funny their having so much trouble with the air shock, They have been around forever and Snomobiles have even had them for almost 10 years now even.
and RV crashed by himself trying to catch RD
The heat race was INTENSE! If RD made one mistake on those last couple of laps he was watching the Main from the sideline.....that was fun to watch.
mustardDog
pretty sure RV crashed trying to catch whoever was ahead of him in eigth at the time...... RD crashed hard in practice himself....they all are vulnerable to crashing when they're pushing hard.
the old fox air shocks and the exerimental ktm air shock are completely different.
The Dungenator appeared to experience a sense of urgency unlike any he has ever felt when he picked his bike up in the LCQ. The level of intensity he displayed put him one notch above his usual self knowing he had to haul ass to qualify.
If he could duplicate that feeling every race day he would be as fast as RV. The Dungenator is my favorite racer, but facts are facts, and RV is the fastest racer in the world, IMHO. RV has moved to a position that JS was at 2 years ago, that is when he gets behind, he pushes that % above his comfort zone and is starting to make mistakes. A1 and A3 proved that.......
Congrats to RD5, RD and the rest of KTM for not panicking, and doing what a top notch team "should" do....that is regroup, don't panic, don't play the blame game (take a hint POTUS), and do what ya'll do best which is win races.
Great night for KTM with RD and KROC. My crystal ball tells me that this will be a recurring result throughout the 2013 season. RD, KROC and MM will be very hard to beat, and will always be in the hunt on race day.......... :-)
ManiacsXtrem, RD is always fast when he has a clear track, when he is in the pack is when he has trouble finding his happy place.
MustardDog !!! LOL again who did he pass?? and with the 800 in 1st of the start and RD 2nd that is all but a holeshot!! Still waiting to see him pass the fast guys.
Are you serious Bill ? He passed pretty much 10 riders to get to second in that LCQ and THEN passed 3-4 riders to get to the from of the main. So tell me where his "clear" track was saturday night?
And for the love of god man... Give the guy some credit for once you old fart.
form= front opps
from even :(
Yet another great one from "MustardDog wrote: about 13 minutes ago
and RV crashed by himself trying to catch RD"
.LOL YUP, who was the Dung trying to catch when he went down real hard in pratice??. Do you ride?? have you ever raced??
how strange is it that when he reved the motor the shock dropped? they must have that thing tied to the engine somehow?
ManiacsXtrem, who did he pass in the LCQ?? please. In the main?? The guys he passed were on the ground thanks to Reed again!! He came out of turn 2 in 2nd behind the 800. LOL Saps should give Reed have his winnings the last two week because EVERYONE but him has been screwed over in turn two at least onec the last two weeks.
Dungey wasnt trying to catch anyone when he went down in practice ..It was the hiccup in the shock that made him go down.Moron
@ BD25- you said it best and just read SeventiesRacer's comment that is good also!
Yes the "air" shock has been around for a long time. I ran Bilstien shocks on my siver tank YZ they used a spring also though. the chocks dont use "air" they all use nitrogen as pure nitrogen will act like a spring. I even expirimented with running nitrogen on the forks of my 75 YZ125 Monoshock. Had to modify the lower fork leg to install 2 seals and I could run with out springs. Had prblems with fork flex and long motos so I put a very lightweight spring in the forks so if the seals went I did not go completly flat.
Also raced a YZ465 with the fox shock and Fox forks Never was able to dial in the shock to my satisfaction but the forks were great. (ps: I did not spell check)
Villapoto sucks, hes done...chokes under pressure big time and more than once this year.
BillC quit crying. RV couldnt get going again, he goes into rush mode when not in front. JS is figuring that out now. Plus RV has to race with your lips around his wang- thats gotta be tough.
@Yamaha35---- What I suspect is they do have the valving for the nitrogen conected to the engine rpm to decreas dampening when the throttle is off kinda like the old Yamaha BASS system did but that system only seemed to work on the 490's for me not the 250 or 125.
Punxsutawney Phil ...Oh yeah thats right RD could never make a mistake on his own it had to be the shocks fault!!
Let me see…it is Monday, the sun rose in the East and will set in the West and here is @BillC AGAIN trashing RD. Incredible. Some things will never change. I actually find @Euromike more tolerable than @BillC. People on here need to wonder about a guy that constantly trashes the best riders and people in the sport, even after an unbelievable night of riding by RD and Millsaps.
Funny how a week ago when RD was caught up early traffic and only made it to 9th when RV won, @BillC was trashing RD for not being able to pass through the pack while RV had a clear track. Hey @BillC, isn’t that exactly what happen on Sat night with the roles reversed?
I have no favorite. I think Millsaps (who @BillC calls “Mudflaps” – nice respect for the sport pal) or Canard winning would be very cool. I feel sorry for your wife @BillC. If you are this much of an ahole here, I can only imagine what a piece of work you are in person.
RD straight put it to everyone in the field Saturday night, no if's and's or but's or asterisks or any of this "he never passed so and so" b.s. I agree RV generally has the upper hand on RD by a slim margin but RD straight kicked their a**es Saturday night after a brutal day up to main event time. Millsaps, Stewart and Barcia were all right there, Dungey got the lead, fended them off and checked out on everyone, bottom line.
what a day for ryan..he is the most consistent rider i ve ever seen...
i think being a quite rider like dungey pays off in the end in contrast with other
riders such as stewart for example..(always a lot of noise the fastest man on the planet....)or bam bam,reed.....
@ ronniebumhart
"Villapoto sucks, hes done...chokes under pressure big time and more than once this year."
First off if you spell his name right I'll spell yours right. Second he has two wins already this year which isn't bad for being "done".
Third, he was ahead of or beside RD going into trun three where he was jacked up? If you asked me to place a wager on who would win with top 5 starts and 20 laps to go.....I'm all in on the guy who "chokes under pressure"
PS.....RV routinely steps up at the MXoN and bails out the team including 2011 when he had to pull off a win because the #1 guy was up to the challenge....not much more pressure than MXoN
My opnion? RV seems to have a problem with his front end sliding out on him which we're not seen in the past....we also haven't seen the air fork in the past???
Hmmm
jus sayin
I suspect that the vibration from the revving of the motor aggrevated the leak. Dungey is very lucky that this happened on the line and not as he was on the track, that could have turned ugly. Elsinore, I too can remember the moto x fox shox "topping out" We tried alot of things back in the days when they were R&Dn;' those shox. Thin teflon/ rubber washers to dampen the "clank" nothing got rid of it. This was working with the Moto X Fox guys in their box van at a local dealership. Barnett, Maroney, Richter they all had that top out clunk.
Happy for RD5, just glad the shox failed him off the track.
The nitrogen was leaking out, and stiction held the shock where it was. The vibration from revving broke the stiction enough to let the shock compress more.
@Misoheye, LOL, little Robbie Knievel, broom up the butt style, ha ha ha!
They had a shock go flat before, and they still were racing with it. It must really be better than the spring to take that kind of a risk.
come on @billc you got to give credit when credit is due, i'm a rv fan but ryan dungey flat out handed it to all of the top contenders.
jonR145 My first post. "BillC wrote: about 1 hour ago
Started the night saying man what a bad luck day RD is having, Big crash in pratic, shock goes out on the line, tought LCQ then with a little help from reed all but holeshots the main and runs away with it."
. Runs away with it.... That is Trashing on RD. You need help!!
.
PS thanks for acting like a 12 year old and calling me names because you don't agree with me. Talk about someone who's life is out of control.
How sad.
Big names in the LCQ or not......Dungey was sending it hard.
Oh and a holie in the main from the outside gate ?
JimM
Pala374
Is it a true air shock or just a regular shock with an air spring(bag)?
mxchampion yes he did, I said he RAN AWAY WITH IT.
,Sorry if I don't think RD is as good as RV. When RD can Pass like RV or even pass RV and pull away then I will say he is as good as RV if he can do it more than onec. Look at the facts, in the last 2 1/2 years RD has 2 or 3 win's when all the fast guys are there and all of them wins came with starts in front of all the top guys. He has yet shown he can win from the back, he needs a clear track to get in his grove other wise he gets stuck behind people. Look I said weeks ago with a good start RD is hard to beat so I was right and was not shocked by it.
.One other thing jonR145 when I called Sap's "mudflaps" he earned it!! he was NOT putting it the work and now that he is even a blind man can see the results. Tell me would you have been happy paying him to do what he was doing a few years back?? I said I would not and Honda agreed and caned him!! so stop living in the past unless you think he is the same guy he was 4 years ago!!
IF it was rev-related, it was most likely a relief valve resonating within the shock. Might not have even vented outside, but between bladders or chambers (like between the main suspending bladder and the "top-out" chamber we suspect they might incorporate). Or, they have mentioned a relief valve that serves to maintain constant shock pressure as the air-temp inside the shock rises (adiabatic heating). Get that or it's backing spring to resonate and you have it.
Best performance all year by a rider. Had Canard held on for the lead at A1, it might be a tie. Dungey is the man!
I can't believe the rest of these guys have me defending BillC lately. Bill gave Dungey a ton of props until people turned the posts from Dungey praise to RV bashing.
I like a Dungey a lot and had a hard time deciding who to root for back in 2010 between him and RV and I think BillC is the same way. The other RD guys take the tact that you can only like one guy and being an RV guy means you're a Dungey hater......I guess because they certainly all seem to hate RV like he stole their lunch money in school. I can understand disliking a rider for their actions, but I don't know what RV did for people to hate him so much. In the same manner, I can't understand anyone hating Dungey. Like whoever you like and stop making it about another racer's mistakes on the track. How many Dungey fans posted above an unprovoked comment about RV? For what purpose? Is it somehow going to impact the reality of what happens on the track over the next 12 rounds?
p.s. I am enjoying the technical explanations of what happened to Dungey's shock by people who have never even seen a closeup, clear picture of it. Personally, I think it was the fitzer valve, and they used the wrong weight ball bearings.
sounds like that airshock needs a few more generations of testing b4 they unleash it (reliably) on race day
Congratulations on a job well done to RD and KR. How many riders have ever transferred from an LCQ to win the main event? The only one I can remember, though it's been awhile, was Jeremy. I'm sure there are select others, maybe RC or JS, even Emig. Anyone? A brief list would be great. Thanks.
@ rusty
I still can't believe they're actully proving such crucial components in race situations? Very dangerous.......I'm not up on my air suspension tech......is it possible we'll see something similar happen with the forks?
@BillC I can't say I completely disagree with you on Dungey needing a clear track to get into his groove but can't the same be said for Villipoto? I like both of them but probably prefer Dungey over Villipoto but the same things you say about Dungey is could be said for RV. Look no further than A-1 and A-3. Who did he pass saturday night? Dungey didn't have to pass that many and was helped by Reed wrecking everyone but he also had the last gate pick and had to go by and avoid the wreck again.
I see this all the time with people saying Dungey can't pass and can't beat the good guys but it seems that all of them need a good start to pass the guys. RV, JS and everyone else along with Dungey. You don't see RV COSISTENTLY pass everyone becasue most of the time he gets a good start and gets in his groove. Last guy I remember who did it consistently was RC and that was pretty much it.
Anyways loving the racing so far this year. Both RV and RD5 are excellent embassadors for the sport. I also think the field is stacked this year with a lot of guys stepping it up. Looking forward to the rest of the season along with the outdoors.
B-KR
Speculations, not explanations.
There were, however, some explanations behind the physics and/or the engineering challenges presented by an airshock.
This is because some people have degrees in hard things, like physics and engineering.
Further, some have had specific MX experience with airshocks and are benefited by a familiarity with just where it is that theory and practice diverge when something is fielded.
p.s. I enjoy watching manifestations of the old adage: Any technology, sufficiently advanced to the observer, is indistinguishable from magic.
Well, I am going to let you in on something: there is no magic.
BTW, your ballbearing jab might be closer than you think. Very possible that a check-valve in the shock (or it's pressure spring) had a harmonic (full, half, or quarter) with the engine while in neutral. Hold just the right rev, check-ball resonates, lifts off it's seat, lose pressure. Seen it happen on high-speed rotating processing equipment. Tuned (not turned) a strobe on it and it was dancing like St Vitus. Maybe we should have used a fitzer valve after all.....
RV is generally really good at coming through the pack....unfortunately a turn two pile up and slippery track which was even slicker due to light rain was his downfall.....well that and and the fact that Alessi got tired and decided to lie his bike down on top of RV's for a quick nap. lol
I have to agree with B-KR on this. BillC likes the Dunge, I have heard him say so many times. He just likes RV better, and like many here, defends his fav. Don't see anything wrong with that. We will get just about every type of thought and or opinion you can imagine here. And that is a good part of the reason I enjoy coming online and reading the comments wether I agree or not. And, as hard as it may be to believe, I have had a few chats with euromike and he really isn't that bad, he just likes to stir things up, and we all know he's not alone there! lol Best off to read what you like, skip what you don't want to see, and keep watchin' the racing, the one thing we ALL agree on!!
What a great ride by RD5 while facing significant and unusual circumstances. What an oddity for a shock to fail on the starting line! It makes sense that the failure was likely vibration related.
Could a crises be just what RD needed to to take his focus and motivation to the next level? If so, can that level be sustained? I sure hope so. RD5 is an amazing rider and a great person.
4 different winners through 5 rounds of SX! My guess is that it could be Canard's turn next.
BK-R good post - We all need to be a bit more rational on here. Some folks are so black and white...never understanding the gray matter in between...
Elsinore Racer you are trying too hard to sound intelligent...try speaking a bit more succinctly...
RV can't win unless he starts up front. Oh wait, that's every winner this year. See a pattern yet?
Everyone just needs to stay clear of the Australian Scud missle for the first couple of laps... haha
It's strange how much Villopoto is starting to remind me of the old James Stewart. Blazing fast, and wins when he doesn't crash or wash out, but he just seems to lose it sometimes. The front end slips are very out of character this year. That said, Villopoto is still the favorite to be champion this year, no doubt. I'm hoping this win will light the fire for Dungey.
I know this is going to sound cliche, but could there really be two parties better suited to work together than R.DeCoster and R.Dungey. I think RD5 must be a (blood) child of Roget's, and they just changed the name to protect the innocent. Kind of a, Dragnet thing. They even look like Father & Son. Just joking Roger...
Two Class Act's, in my book, they are.
I can see where some may say that the pneumatic shock has no place on the Championship series gate. To that, I would have to think that Roger ( as KTM), being the methodical R&D (no pun intended) Manager that he is, has done so much previous testing during the off season and practice, that he feels his percentages of success justify the final test, that being outright (race testing) the product to prove it's worth and advantages.
I just can't forget the fact of how fortunate it's fail-point wasn't realized during a triple landing or any other god awful place, but the gate with a 30sec board staring you in the face.
I shudder the thought! Moving right along...How bout that redundant auxiliary power system in Nawlens...
@ MX40
agreed somewhat...but I don't know how you can blame RV for his performance Saturday night. He was in great position heading into the 3rd turn and bad luck put him way behind the 8 ball. Ya see he knows he has the speed to get back to the top five from dead last so why would we expect him to cruise around? he's a racer. What I'd really like to know is what went down with him and his once nemesis now just pain in the azz Alessi. RV lost a lot of time trying to get him off his bike. Went from 8th to 19th or so in what should have only been a few second mishap.
@ ElsinoreRacer
you seem quite versed in the air suspension department. Is there a fear that the same failure that occured with RD's shock happen with the new air forks? Or are the designs so different it wouldn't happen?
Me thinketh that Elsinore race knows as much about suspension ,shoks and forks as I do or did? @ Elsinore raceer that was a good anolgy.
When I got my fist Ohlin shock I claimed it as the best shock a mere mortal can buy! I did a lot of testing and revalving on them. Yes I was expirimenting with suspension even before the change to long travel when we had to cut our frames and modify our bikes ourselfs. Yes I know how to make the shocks and forks work better! how many of you thought about tapping pennies to your bike so you could change settings in practice?
RV and Dungey are the two fastest guys out there. There are others but those two have been battling since Dungey hit the big bikes. They both push each other to new levels. You can't say which is really faster because it depends on the weekend and the circumstances. The pushed and battled to the last turn that year in the outdoors. RV broke himself trying to stay ahead of Dungey a few years back. RV is just willing to throw caution to the wind in order to get the win. It is first or nothing with him. Dungey is as fast but way more consistent and understands why that is important. They both are capable of handing it to each other and I like to watch them race each other because they do it clean and push each other so hard. Dungey just doesnt get the respect because his system of taking what is there and not pushing isnt the most exciting. In all actuality I would have to give the nod to Dungey. He has proven that he can ride at that fast pace and not get hurt on a regular basis. That proves he is more comfortable with that high pace than most of the rest of them. That is why the others fall out of contention. Because they are pushing a little too hard to ride that pace. Its funny how when Dungey gets a good start, passes a few guys, defends his lead, and then checks out he was just lucky because he had a clear track, but when RV does it he is the best thing to ever throw a leg over a bike. I like them both and hope to see them pushing each other for years (and stay healthy). Dungey does need to get by the slower guys infront of him faster. JS and RV both are very good at that or at least know the importance of getting it done quickly at least.
I sure wouldn't want to be the guy switching back & forth between suspension systems of all things.
Seems to me Dungey did almost all of the passing he needed to do within three turns....................just sayin'.
To all the older gentlemen, I enjoy hearing how shitty the bikes and suspension were back when dinosaurs roamed the earth (really I do) but, please stop trying to compare technology from then to now. Honestly, I like hearing about some of the whacked out stuff that was pulled off back then.
@Elsinore & McMoto - I had a Fox Airshox on my '79 YZ125. I had the shock apart routinely to add/remove a spacer to adjust travel for either 11" or 12" depending on the track. I may be mistaken, but I recall there being a short top-out spring.
Granted, it has been a long time since then, but I don't remember the top out behavior to be that big a deal, at least not on my 125. Maybe that was because the combination of the Airshox and Simons forks was just so much better than the stock suspenders.
@dinosaurmedia - I actually thought ElsinoreRacer's posts were succinct. But then again, I was a physics major in undergrad and an operational supervisor of a nuclear power plant on a submarine in my late 20's too. lol
@ Timmer
Don;t discount the fact that RD has also been very lucky....he's had some pretty scary crashes in the last few years and was able to walk away.....he crashed pretty good in practice last weekend? Was he throwing caution to the wind like RV does? Or is it simply part of the sport?
And yes, I'm a fan of both....
There is no such word as STICTION.
Air shocks, like the Fox EVO have been around for awhile. They top out like any ordinary shock, in fact these air shocks even have sag.
Two air chambers, two floating pistons. Cool technology.. In sno cross, the Fox air shocks are so much better than the others that its ridiculous.
Pure nitrogen, argon, compressed air, farting into it.. any gas will act as a spring.
They charge the out chamber up to about 150psi, extered on a small piston. There is another larger piston inside that exerts about 9x that on the shock body. At least thats how some of them work, not sure about KTM.
He lost oil, not gas. If he lost gas, the shock would still have dampening, when he lifted the seat up.. it just fell.
Its a cool system. Its also a myth that they use nitrogen because its stable, bla bla bla. On a typical motocross shock charged with nitrogen OR compressed air it rises about 80psi as it climbs in temperature. ALSO, when its compressed, the 150psi of nitrogen increases also time and a half. How do I know? Because I put on a guage on my shock and watched it.. Also boyles law. ALL gases expand at the same rate under temperature. Nitrogen is DRY, which is why its better than compressed air.
My uncle was a fighter pilot, they starting use Nitrogen in the accumulators for landing gear because compressed air had alittle moisture. It would freeze in altitude and cause problems.
I have charged shocks with compressed air for 15 years, and my shock that I did got a 17th at Red Bud national (erik kowalik).
Dont believe everything you read.
@ DungeyPoto, you make your own luck. If you look at RD and RV's pro careers it is very clear who has crashed violently more often. It's not as much to do with luck as it is limiting the number of bad crashes you have because no matter who you are, if you crash enough times you will get hurt. RV crashes more, therefore he gets hurt more.
Finally Dungey gets it thats what ive been waiting for i think that he is going to keep wining and take the championship that was a great race ..... good job to Millsaps to he is looking really good this year to
@DungeyPoto - The first turn melee certainly wasn't Villopoto's fault, but he did wash the front end all on his own and I don't think it was Alessi's intention to hit him and get caught up like that. The dirt on the east coast ruts up more and I'm guessing Villopoto won't have to worry as much about his front end pushing.
I haven't always been a Dungey fan, but I think it is great that he is beginning to silence his critics about not being able to win when everyone is healthy (#7 excluded).
JonR145 I think that you are being very generous by making an assumptin that someone would even marry BillC.
The assumption that I would make is that he lives alone in his parent's basement.
My '75 YZ mono had a single air shock with a big nitrogen bulb- it was called the 'Reeder airbag'.
Good to See RD get a SX win
I have to disagree with the statements the RD cannot come through the pack. A fine example is Southwick 2 years ago when his bike wouldn't start and he entered the race almost a full lap down and passed everyone up to 7th place I believe! I will admit that he does not make the aggressive moves to make passes happen sooner (ala MA800 "the widest bike in MX"), but he can get through pretty damn good and has proven it time after time. His strategy is to have a long successful career that he will be able to walk away from healthy. JS7 has always had the banzai style and look where it has gotten him? RV is borderline under control most races, but still has issues keeping it upright. RD will be around for a while and already has the titles to prove he can run with the best, and there were no asterisks for Saturday nights win! JS7 had the fastest lap times and was right behind RD at one point and couldn't get it done, whether it is from a torn ACL or lack of conditioning, you don't run up front like that if you are a lame duck!!
@ MX40
agreed on both counts but from some of the Tweets on Saturday and following posts it doesn't sound like Alessi was in too much of a hurry to get his bike off of RV's. RV ended throwing it aside....
Wouldn't surprise me as I can imagine Mikey has a fair bit of resentment towards RV and it's about the only way he can be a factor....would love to see a video of the incident
I know its rare but spring shocks can fail too.Remember RC's spring breaking and he DNF'd a main.
@ VISTAJIM
We shall break bread at Mamma DiSalvo's Italian Ristorante!! LOL !
I think maybe that Dungey is just real cautious. As an amateur he has probably had many cases where someone cuts over, or makes a mistake next you and you get hurt.
He probably tries to pick and choose the best time to make the pass, being safe, and that's why he is never hurt or ends up in a wreck. Being a AGGRESSIVE mofo like RV can obviously work for you, but also against you.
Dungeys titles have proved he has made the right decisions right?
Time will tell I guess.
Billc has NEVER trashed RD and I have read a lot, he certainly did not trash him on this thread and said it like it was. I think all of us true fans and riders really like most of the racers now and have our favorites. It is immature to git angry that I don't favor the same rider as you.
oh let me guess , a bunch of rv2 vs rd5 in the comment section today ? those two racers have the upmost respect for each other . just wait until next year with tomac , barcia and wilson mixing it up
I hear people say that they are supprised at Dungey riding like a madman, remember Southwick second moto 2011, lap down in a hurricane,caught back up To Villo's rear fender. After starting apx 2 mins down, in the sand in a hurricane.
He smoked everybody in the first moto .
Never gives up and never self destucks!!! Case in point, at the MEC shifting with his hand while Villo gave up!
And to STRESS the things that went right brefore talking about the things that went vwrong! I will be suprised if he dosent win the Championship ! This team IS A TEAM !!!
@ motobk
A-TEAM
MOFO
I see these fox air shocks on sleds and there awesome so far haven't hear of one fail ,the difference cant be much but it seems it is sleds beat the hell out of them in the frozen cold -20 to -10 and the sleds way 595lb or 450lb much heavier then bikes ,If I was Dungey I would stick with that set up that just won let the test monkey figure out the rest with the air shock ,he really cant loose points with these shocks not up to task .way to risky he rode great and deserved the win it was a awesome night for ktm
I got a hundred dollars not one person on here has seen the inside of that #5 shock....it leaked out..(rogers words)....could be as simple as a faulty schrader or as complicated as ????...@elsinore ...Huh?..What?..are you saying a preloaded spring won't top.? it doesn't top because of rebound damping the same as an air sprung shok would. ....@rickmat ...there might not be a word stiction but there is such a thing .... like the force it takes to move a shaft thru a seal ..some seals or shaft finishes have different friction coefficients ie stiction....the WP shock lost pressure (possibly gas and fluid...who friken knows) which is why it would not hold the bike up .most likely nothing to do with damping or oil loss unless there was a puddle under it then it would lose damping and it would bang to the top ... I mentioned this was a problem with air shocks and it would bite him weeks ago...R&d that stuff with test riders during the week...the guys trying to win a championship and flat rode the wheels of that thing this week. I've got a feeling RV1 isn't shakin in his boots just yet ....Misoheye...the wheel is still round. Alot of early technology and principles still apply today...its not rocket science....heck KTM used 70's technology while trying to convince us of its wonderfulness on their rear end till a couple years ago.......
anyone hear anything about blood dopen in pro motocross?
Thanks B-KR, Bucky & davidl .
.Some of these guys make themselves believe it. Look in the Yamaha wake up thread. I think it was pitbull say's something like "are you implying that RD won because RV crashed" and that would have been fine if he stoped there, but NO he then goes on to slam me as if thats what I ment!! He made himself believe thats what I said when it was really a question I would have been happy to answer.
Airshox smareshox. When the Hodaka used to lose air in my airshox shock, it was usually connected to the weak stock rubber powerbands. If any of you know anything about airshox, the Hodaka used to require a titanium powerband, when using the airshox. I am expecting a call from Roger, and I'll give him my free advice.
tonewall, you have a good point about rebound damping and shock-topping re pre-loaded spring, etc. SEEMS like they should behave the same, but they don't. Dude, I have wrestled with that bit of cognitive dissonance since the Fox shocks came out back in the day. It isn't that the Fox didn't have any anti-topping or rebound damping. But, as some others mentioned above, it (topping control) was always an issue.
I always figured it was an offshoot of what I figured was the primary problem: Hoping that the proper volume for an airspring (fork or shock) was accidentally what was available inside a fork with the springs removed, or approximately available in the volume given over to a conventional shock(s) and it's spring. In the case of the fork, I maintain it is a design flaw that the entire (air) spring volume is compressed as the fork travels. Too progressive a spring rate. In the '70s (CR125), I welded shut the handlebar ends and plumbed that volume into my home-made airforks. Made a big difference. Went after larger volumes but that is another story.
Heck yea there is stiction. And it's opposite, so to speak, for the same reason that plain bearings work: working film.
Last week RD got caught up in the melee that was Reed/Milsaps collision bouncing reed into Grant, that put reed into stewart. RV was the benefactor and rode away to a great win,
This week It was RD as the Benefactor.
For those that complained about last weeks race not being Redflagged for the carnage off turn 2. If any race should have been, the LCQ would have been a great opportunity, When the 1st ten bikes are on the ground.........
@elsinore...Early Fox airs with the low speed section bladder not blown had lower air pressure that helped with the topping ...if the bladder was blown the shock had to high of pressure and might top.. ...by the way I hate air only stuff and after 5 or 6 sets gave them up...for Ohlins with springs that worked perfect EVERY time. Still use one. Modern tech will probably 'attempt' to fix this and they may be the future...every 'highly' paid mechanic should smile...lol....endless work... why do all modern trick forks and shocks have coatings...to combat 'stiction'.
tonewall---Stiction is kinda of like Ain't, its not a work but everyone knows what it means.
Airshocks are used in multiple industries. and work great under the right applications.
Bikes are all using some sort of Air/oil shock. But the difference with Dungey is that he is using an Air spring setup to go with that.
For those claiming to say he needs this or he needs that. You guys have no idea what technology he is using in that shock.
Just like with RV's front forks using Airsprings as well.
So this is the first time in a long time a Factroy is producing TRUE WORKS parts. and not just stuff that can be bought out of a factroy catalog.
rg807, you need to do a little research (not slamming you just making a point). The old Fox Air Shocks are NOTHING like the Shock on the KTM's, the technology is very new and very advanced. Go online and read about it, they are doing some very different things than what Fox tried. This shock actually works real well and has no "top out" like those did. Way to much to go into here. Check these out for starters
http://motocrossactionmag.com/Main/News/5a731b7b-45d7-4bf3-97c3-933f6648d841.aspx
I am a fan of both. The both race clean 99% of the time and have respect for the other guys on the track. RV definintely does use the Bubba style of balls out a lot. That is why he crashes more and gets hurt more. I am sure they all have their share of close calls on a weekly basis. Dungey just doesnt put himself in that position as much. He does know how to come through the pack. But he definitely shows more confidence outdoors than indoors. That is not to say he sucks indoors. He has a very smooth style and has to be considered a contender every week. With Barcia, Canard, and soon to be Tomac and Wilson, it is only going to get tougher. I took my boy to meet him at a local shop before Red Bud. I could not have been happier with how Dungey showed my boy attention and made him feel like he was there for him and they were buddies. He is a great rider, a great role model, and a great spokesman for the sport. That is rare these day to be all three. I am a Poto fan also. Nothing is more exciting than when those two get into a battle in the outdoors. It's looking like it is getting back to like it was in the early 90s when there were literally 5 or 6 guys who had a legitimate shot at the win each week. Love it!
BIG respect to Shorty, too. I hope he gets a deal with someone. Too bad Reed isn't ready for another rider yet.
rg807: You pampas terd. This particular air shock technology is new and different. Glad that's what you gleaned from such a good article...
BillC or any of your support group on here. PLEASE post on here all the races you insinuate that RV ran down RD while he was leading a race and passed him. PLEASE...Go ahead..... Ah, you can't. He was on RD's rear wheel for an entire outdoor race a couple years ago and slipped by him just before the finish line but did NOT run him down and pass him. I call bs Bill. I've seen him run down CR, JS, TC, JB, DM and many others who were leading, but not the Dunge.