30 Day Countdown to A1: #15 Ryan Dungey
Friday, December 21, 2012 | 5:10 PM
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PrintWe've reached the halfway mark in our Racer X Monster Energy 30-Day Countdown to Anaheim, as just 15 days remain until the 2013 Monster Energy Supercross season opener. The rider that sits right in the middle of the countdown certainly has the potential to move up the ladder when the 2013 season kicks off. It's current Red Bull KTM star Ryan Dungey, who is certainly at the sharp end of favorites for race wins and a title this season.
As it is, Dungey, who just turned 23, has already accomplished quite a lot. With just three seasons under his belt, he already has the ultimate prize of a 450 Supercross Championship. Consistency has been his hallmark--and that is looked at as both a blessing and a curse.
Dungey's consistency gave him the 2010 championship when all of his main competitors crashed out. In 2011, he won just one race and also lost a ton of points through a mechanical DNF, yet he still nearly scored the title. And he was right in the hunt last year until a rare crash and injury took him out. Dungey is always in the hunt, but, he sometimes gets criticized for not passing the all-critical (for this countdown) eye test. Dungey is certainly fast, but he often doesn't look as fast as he actually is--and while others get cheers for innovating through a section, or busting out the wildest and craziest jump, Dungey goes through the laps in a more methodical manner. Through that, he scores points, and that's why he's always in championship contention.
Dungey has 11 wins in just three season in the 450SX class.
Simon Cudby photo
But consider that his contemporary rival, Ryan Villopoto, has 24 career wins to Dungey's 11. And even if you take Villopoto's extra year in the 450SX class out of the game and remove his 2009 rookie season's two wins, he'd still lead Dungey by double. So, some will say Dungey needs to be more aggressive, but he has a long career ahead of him, so it's hard to judge him fully against most of the riders on this list, who are long since retired. If such consistency nets him a ton more titles and a long career, well it will be hard to argue his strategy.
With a mere three seasons complete, chances are, Dungey is going up this list. The question is how far?
How far up the list can Ryan Dungey go?
Simon Cudby photo
The 30 Best Supercross Racers of All Time Tracker:
#16 Mike Bell
#17 Jeff Emig
#18 Johnny O’Mara
#19 Doug Henry
#20 Jimmy Ellis
#21 Mike LaRocco
#22 Ezra Lusk
#23 Broc Glover
#24 Ron Lechien
#25 Jimmy Weinert
#26 David Vuillemin
#27 Donnie Hansen
#28 Larry Ward
#29 Mike Kiedrowski
#30 Marty Tripes
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Should be Higher on list... Here we go !
Looked better on the suzuki.
15th?? Really? Guess I will wait for the rest of this list before I disagree...
Sounds like they serve alcohol at the RacerX Christmas party !
JimM
Pala374
how can he be on the list if he aint done? clearly you guys arent trying hard anymore
I am curious as to who all will be higher on this list than the Dunge. I assume Bradshaw will be, but he never even won a title. Too much emphasis on race wins and not enough on championships, IMO. The fact that Henry scored higher on this list than LaRocco is still crazy to me.
Except for his hand shifting at the MEC, Ryan is the poster boy for the consecutive approach. He looks at the long term, an once on track, he steadily chugs forward, picking up speed and momentum as he goes. Dungey tries to minimize the damage on his off days and not let the little things derail him from reaching his goals. That is why Ryan will not win at the clip of JS, CR or RV, even though he has the speed. Dungey will be on or near the podium each week, collecting those valuable championship points. Ryan may not be as exciting to watch at some of the other guys, but you have to admire his blue collar, git er done work ethic. As for moving up on the supercross wins list, I think Dungey might get to the top ten, but you never know, its hard to stop a Locomotive....
You wonder if Cheech and Chong comprised the list ! Now if Stewart and Charmichael are on the list next .I'm gonna quit readin!
Who desides this stuff?
Its pretty hard to rate a rider DURING his career. Dungey may crash and never win again Anaheim 1, or he may go on to break McGraths record, so at this point I suppose they are just lining them up.
I remember the year Dungey turned pro, he was racing at Little Falls, MN as an amateur. He looked super fast, but I wasnt sure how fast he was since he was in B class. Craig Decker made his return to MN from Canadian Nationals and I KNEW he was fast as he had just beat Kyle Lewis and ran Ryan Hughes down at the MTA vet national narrowly losing to Ryno. The track annoucer began to take lap times, and sure enough Dungey was only .5 sec slower than Decker.. and Dungey was on a 250f (Decker on a 450). I had a pretty good feeling right there that he was going to become a good pro, but I cant believe how much he has improved since then.
I never look at him as a threat, but every year he proves us wrong, and this year I wouldnt be suprised if Dungey wins the SX championship. They should call him the ICEMAN, cause he is so cool, he just waits.. and wins.
MrMx Funny you should bring up Cheech and Chong.. I was just reading the Dec 75 issue of Modern Cycle, it had stories on the Louisianna National, Betor air forks, Fox air shox and a story on drugs and riding...they interviewed a desert racer a tt rider and mx rider, all talking about their drug of choice and use. It even had a schematic showing how to make a bong...ahhh the old days ....lol
@ BD25 Funny never did say if you got any snow !
Happy Holidays all
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIkKMBOOjUg
Seems to me we have objective criteria in race wins and championships.
Then the subjective criteria in level of competition when the wins and championships occurred, injuries, and the speculative "what could have been" or what "might be" based on injuries and DNFs etc.
For the 15 slots that remain we have multi-time champions and riders with more than 11 wins. For multi-time champions, we have Mcgrath (7), RC (5), Hannah (3), Stanton (3), Stewart (2) , Reed (2) , RJ (2), RV (2), & Ward (2),
For more race wins we have Bradshaw (19), Barnett (17), Windham (16), JMB (16), and David Bailey (12).
That leaves only 1 open slot not accounted for.
The question is in what order will these riders be ranked? And who gets the 1 open slot? How do you rate raw speed vs. wins vs. championships vs. potential (unrecognized or future?)
@BD25 - since you are reading vintage magazines, do you have a copy of Foofaraw that the DB staff put out in '75?
http://www.superhunky.com/store/foofaraw.php
I don;t know if I still have my copy, but I remember reading it and laughing so hard I cried. Long live the GYBDT
I agree I am to say the least a bit taken back by this list wtf?? larocco and kiedrowski henry and emig are that low on list ?
MrMx No we were sparred the snow, temps dipped and wind blew constant 30 mph for a couple days.. today was real nice, almost 60 however, they are predicting snow for Christmas and temps in the 20's...
Cr500F No I don't have that issue, but Super Hunky was one of a kind, loved his stuff!!
Gee I wonder if there is any bias going on??? K-Dub(yes I love him like everyone else does) is gonna be ahead of Dungey, Hannah and a few other riders that were/are simply better than him...
@ CR500AF
I'm sure in the annals of Racer X I mentioned to you .....
Rick Sieman was and still is a good friend of my dads and family both sides dads... He used to come to our house when I was little he is out in Arizona now ... He was the first person to call me LLill MX true stuff...............I talked to him about 4 years ago at a big party at the Superbowl in Glendale Arz. Super Bowl XLII Giants and Pats . My moms side is DeBartolo !
CHECK OUT THE OLD COLLECTION # 6 IS BAILY'S BIKE
https://twitter.com/AndrewShortMX29
Ryan is a class act, very professional and smooth. Damn I miss Danny MAGOO Chandler!!!
@Mr-Mx - I do not recall you mentioning Super Hunky in previous exchanges, but I am not in the least surprised based on how frequently you rubbed elbows with the sport's elite. You are one well connected individual, moto and otherwise. You, sir, are my hero.
Hope surgery went well.
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.
@Mr MX - love those early 80's works Hondas. Thx for sharing the link to Short's twitter page.
mr mx....is that the debartolo from boardman ohio?
Here's my list to finish it off. For what it's worth. Tony D should of made the top 30.
#14 Windham
Bayle
Bradshaw
Bailey
Barnett
Ward
Stanton
R Johnson
Reed
Stewart
Hannah
Villopoto
Carmichael
McGrath
@Mr-Mx and CR500AF you can go to a vintage swapmeet site VintageMX.US . Super Hunky is selling stuff on there .He sell old DirtBike mags and DVDs of old dirt bike mags on there. He also has his own website.
Also @CR500AF. I think it is pretty obvious who number 1 will be.Also another factor is the amount of races in a given year of the series.Back in the day there wasn't as many races as there are now.So I guess that has a effect on the ratings.
The credibility of whomever is writing this list just went in the toilet. While there were some dumb picks in the wrong place before this, putting No. 5 where they did shows a remarkable lack of knowledge. You can't fix stupid.
Shouldn't Stanton be ranked ahead of RJ?? Everybody always says its not who wins the most, its who has the championships.
Stanton has 3... I would imagine this puts him in the top 5. If it doesn't, then championships don't hold as much water as everyone preaches.
Dungey has a supercross championship, Bradshaw doesn't. How can Bradshaw be a better racer? Because he won 9 times in 92?
Like I said, a formula needs to be made somehow to get an accurate list.
Criteria for formula... Starts, wins, podiums, dnfs, championships, difficulty of competition, etc etc all rolled up into an equation.
It's possible for a rider to have 50 wins and zero championships, not sure how that should be ranked but win % doesn't mean shi@ without winning the big one.
@Fred - I was thinking about the change in series length myself. For example, Bob Hannah's 27 wins.
Hope DC, Weege, Ping, and Mathes pay attention to the following.
So I'd expect to see Hannah in the #3 slot, above both Chad and James, based on dominance in his time, shorter race series, and a huge "what if" factor for '80, '81, and (to some degree) '82.
What would Hannah's win total have been if he had been racing a 17 race series as we have for the past many years? I'd argue 40 wins at a minimum and something closer to 60 wins all things considered. See below (all data from the RacerX Vault).
1977 - won 6 of 10
1978 - won 6 of 11
1979 - won 6 of 12
1980 - injury year
1981 - won 1 of 12
1982 - won 1 of 12
1983 - won 5 of 16 (but only a partial year due to injury. He won 5 of the first 9 rounds, raced through round 12, and did not race the last 4 rounds)
1984 - won 1 of 17 (but only a partial year due to injury. He didn't race in rounds 5, 6, 7, 11, 12, 16.)
1985- won 1 of 11 (but only a partial year due to injury. He didn't race in rounds 1, 7, and 11)
If you assume win percentage by year for just the first 3 full season he raced, Hannah would likely have 10 - 12 more wins, or 37 - 39 wins. Series length in '83 and '84 was basically the same. If '85 had been a full 17 races, he likely had 1 - 2 more wins.
Where the numbers get silly is in '80 & '81 where Yamaha had a competitive bike ('82 is a wild card). If you assume a conservative 50% win percentage (from '77, '78, and '79) and 17 races per year for '80 & '81, there is 17 more wins for Hannah and (2 more championships). With that level of confidence you could argue that he would have had another 5 - 6 wins in 82, but that is a tougher argument because of the bike issue).
So I'm thinking if the seasons had been the same length for the seasons Hannah actually raced, I would make an argument that Hannah would have about 40 wins total, so top 5-6 all time, without much speculation. If you factor in the "what if" from just '80 and "81, then we'd looking at close to 60 wins. (And no, I;m not going to do the same math for RJ but he would likely have more wins and championships. )
So I'd expect to see Hannah in the #3 slot based on dominance in his time, shorter race series, and a huge "what if" factor for '80, '81, and 82. 80 where he was out completely, '81 where he was racing himself back into shape and '82 when the bike was a POS.
Let the debate begin.
@Fred - from my first post in this thread, I came up with 14 riders with more championships or wins than Ryan Dungey, so there is one wild card. I also have no doubt that MC will be rated #1.
First, I think windham was #30 for those asking but I could be wrong.
I think we need to eliminate "what if" and go by what the other guy said.
Champions first... Then wins for a tie breaker... Then wins.. Seems only fair.
McGrath then RC, then Hannah or Stanton... Etc...
This is hard!! Proof it's Impossible to compare different eras.. Everyone on here brings up great points. That's why it's good bench racing.. I think racer x is doing fine. There really are no definitives outside the top 10 for the most part.
@beancanyon - agree that RV will finish pretty high up on the list by the time wraps up his career (barring injury). But tough to put him at #3 at this point with so much of his career in front of him.
@rickm - agree with your point about wild speculation. That's why I separated out '80 - '82 for my take on Hannah, so you could at least think about the impact of different length of race seasons from his being injured at the peak of his career.
@Mr-Mx, Darlene DeBartolo?
CR500AF I agree with you.Thank you for doing the stats because I was to lazy to do it myself. RJ's probably wouldn't of made much of a difference.1-3 wins extra at best for him.82 had 12 races by 83 there were 16.
@CR500AF, impressive statistics. I think this debate is like the big 4 sports. In order to be a great, you must first at least win a championship. Once you do, it is the number. Terry Bradshaw, Joe Montana, Michael Jordan, John Elway, Reggie Jackson, Wayne Gretzky, etc. Their "greatness" walks hand in hand with the number of championships they won.
@Fred - interesting to see how the race schedule fluctuated so much until the early 90's when it settled into a 16 race series (although '93 - '97 were only 15 races). SX didn't become a 17 race series until 2007.
'74 - 3 races
'75 - 4 races
'76 - 6 races
'77 - 10 races
'78 - 11 races
'79 - 12 races
'80 - 17 races
'81 - 12 races
'82 - 12 races
'83 - 16 races
'84 - 17 races
'85 - 11 races
'86 - 12 races
'87 - 16 races
'88 - 10 races
'89 - 15 races
'90 - 18 races
'91 - 18 races
'92 - 16 races
'93 - 16 races
'94 - 15 races
'95 - 15 races
'96 - 15 races
'97 - 15 races
'98 - 16 races
'99 - 16 races
'00 - 16 races
'01 - 16 races
'02 - 16 races
'03 - 16 races
'04 - 16 races
'05 - 16 races
'06 - 16 races
'07 - 17 races
'08 - 17 races
'09 - 17 races
'10 - 17 races
'11 - 17 races
'12 - 17 races
@JonR - agree. I did the stats for Bob Hannah because I think his accomplishments are under appreciated for what they were at the time. With the exception of DC, none of the racerX staff is old enough to have perspective on his Hannah"s career.