Observations: MEC
Wednesday, October 24, 2012 | 2:40 PM
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PrintBefore last weekend, there was just one more race on the calendar before hitting the snooze button and drifting off into the post season. Yep, the Monster Energy Cup, held right in my hometown of Las Vegas, Nev. The main sponsor, Monster, was very adamant to me that they do not want this event to be the 18th round of supercross. They wanted it to stand on its own and be different and unique in every way possible. And so with that in mind, did it work?
This is the second year of the event and last year in its inaugural running it was promoted more as a hybrid motocross and supercross track in the hope that it would attract some European racers. The phrase, “Supercross des Nations,” was mentioned more than a few times by some people, but that idea failed to materialize. The track was very long, and it definitely had an outdoor-ish feel but in the end, I felt like the guys at Feld missed the mark. The mains were too long and the track wasn’t very good, but the ideas and thoughts all had promise. I didn’t come down on the guys very hard because I’ve been harping for years to switch up supercross and try some new innovations. I wasn’t going to be the guy to say that the race sucked because I admired the limb that Feld sort of climbed out onto.
Since 1986, the supercross format has basically stayed the same as it is now. There are two classes with the smaller class divided into an East and a West region. Two heat races, an LCQ (we had semi races for years but those are gone--no real change made there) and a twenty lap main event (15 laps for the smaller class). Look at any sport you want; NFL, MLB, NHL, and there have major changes made to the game since 1986. Oh you say that we’re nothing like the stick and ball sports and therefore, that’s no comparison? Ok, I’ll buy that. Look at IndyCar, F1 and NASCAR racing--all of those series have made major changes as well since the mid ‘80s. We need something in supercross, which is something I’ve gone on and on about. The bikes are way faster than ever and the stadiums haven’t gotten any bigger. It’s time to adapt and change the way we’ve been doing things in order to see if we can get it more exciting. Evolve or die, as they say, and we haven’t exactly been evolving much these days.
The Talla-Vega turn worked my better than last year's venture into the stands.
Simon Cudby photo
Holeshot and passing points, reverse gate pick order, a “chase” style format, five races that have two-ten lap main events to see who’s a sprint specialist, a twenty-minute main event, regardless of laps, one solid 250 Class at all the rounds, whatever you want to do, I’m down with it. If it doesn’t work, we can change it back. The worst thing we can do as teams, riders, media and promoters is stick our heads in the sand and pretend that everything is fine.
The “SXDN” format isn’t going to happen. The Euro guys don’t want to travel thousands of miles just to get beat down, so this year, the outdoor-ish section was mostly eliminated and it was basically a supercross track with no whoops. I liked it and thought it was much better than last year’s track. The section that went into the stands was approximately 374 percent better than last year, the three main events were shortened and there were no qualifying races. All the main event guys were selected from timed practices. There was also the addition of the Joker Lane (maybe a better name for that next year guys?) that added about four seconds to your lap time and you had to take it one time per main event. Add in a split start and you have one hell of a different event. This isn’t your 18th round of supercross, that’s for sure.
So did it work? How was it? What do I think? I think that the event was significantly better than last year and if last year’s race was a double, this one was a home run. The guys at Monster and Feld, along with Ricky Carmichael (who designed the track and redeemed himself after last year’s design) deserve some credit for making positive changes in each and every way. I can’t think of anything the guys did that wasn’t positive or didn’t work.
The lane going into the stands offered more passing and options for the guys, the straightaway with sand rollers was awesome, the joker lane added mystique and excitement to the race, and even affected the race itself in the third main. The split start was exciting (ok, a tad sketchy, I’ll give you that; after all the rear brake is on the right hand side and a couple of switchbacks aren’t the best way to be on it) and as I said, great job to everyone involved. I haven’t been this excited after watching something since Jaws came out on Blu-ray.
Justin Barcia was the big winner at the MEC in his Muscle Milk Honda debut.
Simon Cudby photo
So what should we, and what can we, take from this race into supercross? All of it! Part of it! Some of it! Whatever you can! We need to do something to supercross to liven it up (and the announcement of the KTM Jr SX Challenge coming back for five rounds next year just doesn’t cut it for me. Especially after they stopped the kids from trying to double the triples), and the MEC is a breeding ground for new ideas. C’mon you teams and riders, open up your minds and let’s try some crazy (for us) crap.
The big winner on the night was Honda Muscle Milk’s Justin Barcia. Yep, the kid that many thought would be able to show something against the big dogs went out and won the whole darn shooting match. Besides being shocked at his speed (I thought he’d be fast but not THIS fast), I was also shocked at the fact that he didn’t really get into it with anyone out there. Justin was very good, his starts have been on point all year and his debut ride on the debut race for the new 2013 CRF450 couldn’t have gone any better.
After the race Justin didn’t want to come off as cocky or expecting to win, but yeah, I think he felt that he can match up with anyone at any time. That’s the attitude you have to have, and it’s one that all the “big guys” have. Barcia’s got that nice-sized chip on his shoulder and it’s not coming off for anyone. I remember working for Yamaha in Chad Reed’s debut season in the 250 Class and he shocked me a few times with his statements about RC, and how there was absolutely no respect given out on the track between any of the big names. Barcia’s the same way and that’s a big part of why he’ll be successful in my opinion. If you’re Honda and thinking of the upcoming 2013 SX season with Barcia, Reed and Canard, you’ve got to be thinking that you’re looking pretty good.
Ok, the big news is that you can shred a ligament in your knee, get a replacement one out of a dead guy, install it in your knee and four months later, you’re as good as new. And to that I say, who knew? Kawasaki’s Ryan Villopoto came out in his first race since the knee injury suffered at Seattle and destroyed the guys in the first main event. Like, just wiped everyone else out like it was Anaheim 1 2012. But then he promptly wiped out while leading the second main and called it a night after that race. So it wasn’t really a success for RV in the fact that he didn’t win the overall, but he won the first main in a great ride and crashed out while leading the second. So yeah, he’s got no issues with the knee, no issues with rustiness and really, he looks awesome. And he’s only going to get better from here until Anaheim. That’s a scary thought for his competition.
Villopoto looked sharp in his return from ACL surgery.
Simon Cudby photo
Big news for Villopoto and for Kawasaki in that they showed up with Showa air forks on both his and Jake Weimer’s KX450Fs. Kawasaki has used KYB (Kayaba) suspension on their race bikes for, well, forever. This was big news made even bigger because the 2013 production Kawasaki KX450F comes with a KYB air fork. One would think that the natural move for the green team to make would be to go with the works KYB air fork, but instead they went with Showa.
Asking around with the guys on the team, they just fed me the usual stuff like looking to get better, trying everything out there and feeling like the Showa forks and shock were just a much better performing duo than the KYB stuff. But I have to think that the performance must have been a LOT better for the Kawi guys to switch. This is big news people, and it’s going to be interesting to what the guys think about the new boingers as the 2013 season progresses.
A couple of years ago Kawasaki came out with a Showa fork for the production 250F that has a fork spring in only one fork. It’s nothing new, it’s been done for years, but it was a nice bit of weight savings. Well, now the Honda and Kawasaki guys have air forks and I imagine Suzuki won’t be far behind. This technology stuff is interesting and the lesson is, as always, air is better than metal in all things but war.
Going into the MEC I thought that it was going to be a good race for Ryan Dungey, as he has kept his training and racing mentality the whole time due to the MXoN he raced. And in a way, it was a good race for Dungey as he ended up second overall on the night. And it’s even more impressive considering that he bent his shifter in the first two motos by hitting a Tuff Block. This led to Dungey shifting his KTM in the air with his hand. Let me say that again: WITH HIS HAND. Very strange stuff, and it’s impressive that he kept going out there with some pretty good speed. It’s also an indicator of how good the 450 four-strokes are because, you know, he only one or two gears the entire track. This just in, Dungey’s gnarly.
Chad Reed’s got the perfect mindset (can I steal this from Jeff Emig?) for an older veteran guy. He’s a two-time SX champion and hasn’t been that focused this off-season on prepping for 2013 since recovering from his injury. Things are ramping up for the two-two, but he wasn’t where he needed to be at the MEC and he knew that. The thing where his mindset comes in is that even though he got beat at the MEC, it doesn’t affect him one bit. He’s not the type to dwell on this stuff and think about how maybe he’s lost his edge or whatever. Mentally, he’s very strong, which goes along with being one of the greatest riders of all time I suppose. Anyway, in talking to Chad about the new Honda he admitted that at first he wasn’t a fan, but the more and more time he spent on it has made him a believer in the machine and for the first time, he used the air forks on the bike and loved them. Now he’s off to Australia to race the next three rounds of the Aussie SX series where I’m naming him as a huge favorite to win the next three rounds.
Simply amazing!
Simon Cudby photo
There were also Super Mini and Amateur All-Star races at the MEC, and perhaps you may have heard about this Adam Cianciarulo kid making his big bike debut? Yeah, I know, the one they have so cleverly nicknamed AC did seem to be a pretty big deal at the race, but I suppose that happens when you’re a Monster-sponsored rider at a Monster event and you’re one of the best mini-cycle racers around. But in the end, the winner of the race was Star Yamaha’s Cooper Webb (a rival to AC in the mini ranks), who won the overall without winning a moto. Troy Lee Designs/Lucas Oil Honda’s Shane McElrath won the first moto and AC won the second. There’s no doubt that Cianciarulo did nothing to dispel the hype around him, especially considering he was going up against guys that had been on the bigger bikes much longer, but it also made me realize that there are some other fast guys coming up as well.
Let’s take a gander at the results shall we?
Overall
- Justin Barcia 2-1-2 Hon
- Ryan Dungey 3-2-3 KTM
- Eli Tomac 4-4-1 Hon- It’s pretty obvious that Eli is really, really, really looking forward to his move to the 450 Class. He’s always ridden the big bike well, and he mentioned after the race he’d like to ride some opposite coast 450 races, as well as the 450 outdoors. I hope he doesn’t look so far forward that he kind of writes off the 250 Class and his defense of the number 1 plate. Tomac won the third moto with some gnarly speed and the Joker Lane that Barcia had to take made the pass easy for him. In a bit of a surprising move, Eli took it early in the race and then just hammered down to catch back up to Barcia. After the race, to no one’s surprise, Barcia didn’t like the Joker Lane while Eli said it was great. Shocking to see racers like something that goes their way and condemn something that doesn’t.
- Chad Reed 5-6-4 Hon
- Josh Grant 6-5-5 Yam- Grant’s debut ride for JGR Yamaha went pretty well. He was consistent in all three motos, which for Grant, is pretty good. I wonder what he thinks of the JGR Yamaha bike with a couple of seasons off of it, and all the work the team has put into it?
- Kyle Cunningham 8-7-6 Yam- What is it about Las Vegas that helps out Cunningham? Kyle put in another good ride on the Star Racing Yamaha 450 to beat some pretty fast guys. He loves the hard dirt, no doubt about it.
- Jake Canada 9-10-7 Suz- Canada rode an RMZ450, not his regular Honda 250F, and this has to be a real surprise right? Canada even battled with Reed at one point in the race, although Reed had gone through the Joker Lane and Canada had not. The plan for now on the MotoConcepts team is for Canada to do 250 West and then some 450 races on the East.
- Kyle Chisholm 11-9-8 Kaw- Chisholm’s MEC was a lot like his 2012 SX--it was all right, not great but not bad either. The Chiz has to get angrier off the start or something, and maybe throw four teeth on the back sprocket or something so he can get out there earlier.
- Mike Alessi 7-3-19 Suz- Alessi came out with numbers that lit up for the opening ceremonies and then he proceeded to light it up in the second race when he got a third. In the third race he was looking good on the first lap but over jumped coming out of a rhythm section and bounced over a berm. His battle with Barcia indicates promising things for the 800 for 2013 SX season.
- Ryan Villopoto 1-12-21
- Justin Brayton 10-8-20 Yam- Brayton wasn’t very good in his return for the JGR team, but remember last year when he debuted on the Honda and wasn’t very good? Remember how good he’s ridden in Vegas at the SX finals over the years? Weird, right?
- Vince Friese 15-16-9 Suz
- Jake Weimer 12-18-10 Kaw- Weimer didn’t have a good MEC. Crashes (not all his fault) and more crashes hurt him. By the third moto, he probably felt like Larry Holmes in 1981.
- Killy Rusk 14-17-11 Hon- I feel like this is a good result for Killy, right? We’re happy about this right?
- Antonio Balbi 13-13-16 Kaw- Balbi was back!
- Christian Craig 21-11-12 Hon- I thought that Christian would be better, so not sure what happened. I know that he and Kyle Partridge almost came to blows off the track for something that happened on the track.
- Austin Politelli 20-14-14 Hon- I’ve heard Politelli’s name tossed around for a few 250 rides in supercross. You know who’s a big fan? Jason Thomas, that’s who. He’s driving the Politelli bandwagon.
- Ben LaMay 22-15-13 Yam- Where was the outdoor magic for LaMay? Where did it go?
- Gareth Swanepoel 16-20-15 Suz- Gareth looked strange out there on the Suzuki after years on a Yamaha and in the end, he struggled a bit also.
- Jeff Alessi 17-19-17 Suz- Jeff looked weird out there with #89.
- Austin Howell 19-21-18 Suz- Yeah, NorCal!
- Kyle Partridge 18-22-22 Suz – Yeah, Vegas local!
Reed is now headed to Australia to compete in the Australian SX series.
Simon Cudby photo
A couple of big name riders had terrible MEC races. Chris Blose and Tyler Bowers both failed to qualify for the main after crashes in the LCQ (which was held as the first race of the night; again, another hit!). Not disrespecting the riders that were in the 22-man main event, but how do Blose and Bowers not make the main event? Blose was on a KTM for a Mike Metzger-backed team of some sort and Bowers, the AX champion, is much better than what he showed.
Thanks for reading, email me at [email protected] if you want to share your thoughts with me on the MEC and all that went down.
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Can we get a SCREENSAVER Shot of Dungey's Freestyling, left-handed shifting?
Next year they should design the track to be able to run all or part in both directions and have them run one main in the opposite direction. That would really change things up.
Perhaps they should have to push their bikes through a gator pit once a race?
@mxneagle - That is an awesome idea! I wish they would do that.
I thought the event turned out pretty good but I thought the track was pretty boring, overall. The sand rollers were cool, the Talle-Vega turn was cool, the seperate start was cool-ish. The joker lane was a good idea, but I think it should have been a gnarly, 100 yard stadium-whoop section instead of such a short sand section. Everything else was SX as normal.
This event was sooo cool to attend. I have raced at Pro Supercrosses and attended these events for almost 34 years and this was the best of the best. Raced at the LA Venue, Daytona SX, etc. The Daga turn didn't have much side by side action as expected, but still a great feature. And to see Dungey hand shift (or try to hand shift) over the big triple...YIKES....and the outside attractions with Ken Block, etc. And the
Pro Pits with grass was simpy a great creature comfort. And last week people complaining about 16.00 beers...the were 6.00 even though I didn't consume any alcohol, but had a Monster...great stuff...great job Feld.
Jump a shark tank?
Shark tank - perfect metaphor.
I think that we need to stop looking to the manufacturers for racing direction. Take a look at the freestyle guys here - manufacturers are second class fans, while the personalities representing the ethos of their sponsors makes the show.
It isn't the racing that brings in the money, but it does bring in the target demographic, which brings in the money. People want to see close racing - sure - but what they really want to see is their favorite rider mix it up. We need to make the tracks both more technical and more forgiving. Wall jumps, deep sand, elevation change, short straights, split lane corners - all of these are very technical, but not for the racers - they can handle it. Concentrate on keeping the marquis riders healthy and make the racing more forgiving for crashes but require tons of skill to go fast on, and you have your answer.
Look at Endurocross - slow, technical, exciting, scary, fun, and even a man of 40 can compete in a whole season. Not that SX/MX need to evolve into Endurocross, just that we need to evolve into a predictable sport where we can better market the marquis riders with predictability.
Once we do that, we walk away from manufacturers making the decisions, and walk toward sponsors making the decisions to maximize their returns. With that, we bring the possibility of deeper market penetrations with marquis products like the Villopoto line of extreme wear, etc.
Snow sports are doing it, why can't we?
If Showa or KYB can get air forks to work as well as KYB's SSS stuff, that will be a MAJOR move forward. I imagine contamination & wear will be cut down as well, and when you add the weight benefit, it might obsolete conventional USD forks.
If these things can do what the factories want and still give the suppleness that vets (meaning: much slower people) require, that will be quite an advancement.
Now somehow dump the rear spring and that will complete the quantum leap in suspension evolution.
"The Euro guys don’t want to travel thousands of miles just to get beat down"
Really matthes? Where were you a couple weeks ago when America totally got its ass handed to them?
Good post, BigUglyManiac.
I realize it was mx not sx but the no credit thing is getting really old.
donjohnson- enjoy our 3rd place this year in mxdn. and yes you would get smoked in sx. now go back to miami.
BigUgly
one of the best posts I've read on here in a long time! Hopefully the powers that be are listening. Seems the promoters feel these guys need to go 50mph and jump 100ft to make it exciting, A slower more technical track would create way more excitement and keep the stars on the gate and off the couch!
The top guys will remain the same with way more battles.
We can only hope.
There are three things I would change for Supercross.
1. Stop prepping the track between races.
2. Make the mains for the 450 class 25 minutes plus 2 laps. Make the 250 main 15 minutes plus 2 laps.
3. Give each rider 1 direct transfer to the main a year. The fans want to see their favorite rider race.
That's my 2 cents.
Yea man..Matthes should be running the AMA...lets have dead engine starts and a pit stop where everybody has to switch bikes....then we can create an auto win for whomever can jump the whole stadium...evolve or die
@bigugly hit the nail on the head with that one......less air ..more turns ,off cambers etc...slow it down and allow more guys to be front runners...maybe the series should have an ....Air is capable of ultra plush action it also is capable of complete failure and no spring to get ya home.....for a track bike its probably the future.
@Ripdown,..I think the idea of having the riders push their bikes thru a gator pit once a main is simply brilliant!!! I shot wine out my nose man tyvm!!! LMAO
BigUglyManiac wrote: You are a dip shit. I'm sure you are against the four strokes as well. Might as well put a circle track in the middle of a stadium. That would probably draw more of a crowd then the so called sold out venues that.... Wait let me scroll up to see what you were talking about again.... Oh, sorry enduro cross. Bigger jumps, steep lips, whoop sections, bowl turns, that is what supercross is about. The tracks to me were sketchier in the 80s with crappier bikes. The evolution of rider/bikes has increased. No matter what you do these riders will find a way to go faster. Some of the scarriest crashes are at low speeds.
My Two Cents: Like they say, its always easier the second time around. RC and his crew saw what worked last year, corrected what didn't and tried some new things. Kudo's to him for a job well done.
Some things RC did can be used to improve supercross. The Talla-vega corner could be put in at most venue's, as it gave great passing opportunities, the long sand straight worked well, as did the split lane. Funny, I did not miss the whoops, the racing was closer and safer because of it. I also like the rider communication idea, it could be used to make the racing safer, giving riders quicker alerts to downed riders.
Format change: Time qualifying 40 riders, just like outdoors, then having two, 20 man, 10 lap heats, where the top 10 move on. Then two 15 lap mains, where like outdoors, the combined low score takes the win. This eliminates the LCQ, making each heat more intense and gives the fans 30 laps of the best riders going at it.
I am sad to hear that they are bringing back the 65cc challenge. I thought that supercross wanted to move forward, it has been tried before. I hate to see the little guys risk injury, plus it is so slow and takes up time I could be watching the pro's I spent my $50 dollars to see. If they need a filler race, make it a two stroke race,125 or 250, either would be more exciting to watch.
If what he said was true, Chad Reed did well. That guy is very intelligent in regards to his racecraft and will be there all year if healthy. I wonder how much information is exchanged between the Honda teams (2-2 / factory / McBrooks)?
Knowing the guy is all about the SX championship, the MEC finishes put him way up in the "preparation" curve, Ausssie SX's will probably get him even closer. By A1 he should have the CRF450 dialed in to "half-season" form and way ahead of the game.
With his skill level and the supporting cast he has assembled (Goose, Lars, etc), I would imagine McBrooks & Factory Honda would love to have some information sharing available.......I still see twice pipes on the factory bikes.........is Honda going to stick with it this time around?
Race Tech, Factory Connection, Pro-Action and a ton of other suspension shops will lose money on the disapearance of springs from suspension but, Yoshimura, Pro Circuit and FMF will make it up when their exhaust business doubles..........get it?
@ BD25, pushing a kids race (although monopolized by KTM) is a MUCH easier sell to the MIC than a two bike (KTM or Yamaha) race on bikes that they want everyone to forget about.
Imagine the outrage if a racer was to lay down lap times comparable to or (heaven forbid) faster than the 250F / 450 lap times on a (GASP) TWO STROKE?!?!?!?! It would be anarchy!!! The Emperor would have no clothes! The veil would be lifted, the curtain pulled back, I'm running out of analogies...........
Awesome read. And we got some talk from someone in the industry about wanting to change up the format of the sport. Praise the lord!
I will go ahead and plug again the idea to move the sport to 1 professional class. Put a max displacement (like 300cc), max bhp, and a max weight. For Supercross take the top 20 qualifiers and run 2 20 minute mains. Have 1 semi-pro class that races 1 20 minute main but doesn't have a championship so the riders don't earn points and should ideally keep the racers regional. Current supercross qualifying is a joke. We don't need it and we don't need no-name guys ruining the start of the race for the people who pack the stadiums.
the problem with the whoops is they over do it nobody ever said they had to be the entire length of the stadium they can have two short whoop sections on each side you almost never see riders go down in the short whoop sections
Carlsbad..Good points, that could upset the apple cart entirely! As much as I was impressed with the super mini kids, maybe have it open to 14-15 yr old A-B amateur riders, all on KTM's, that ought to wake up the industry!! Who knows, it might lead to the manufactures reviving the 2 stroke for the general public, as not every one wants or can afford a 4 stroke. It's not like they don't have the technology....but that would make to much sense.....
@ BD25 & 731Chopper, one of the main stumbling blocks is that SX is run by a "for profit" company that has zero ties to the motorcycling industry.
They (Feld) are looking to maximize profit and the lines of "max profit" and "growing the sport" do not intersect. No matter it's a down economy, even it was a boom economy, they wouldn't be interested in investing back in a sport they have zero ties to.
Qualifying used to be about making the show, nowadays it is mostly to solidify your gate pick because there aren't enough guys to fill out the old qualifying system. As is, they barely have enough racers to make the night show. Making it easier to get to the show / into the show should be a MAJOR goal for all concerned but, without the carrot at the end of the stick, it will never happen.
My only concern is a love of the sport and to see it become as healthy as it can. I have no vested interest in one decision or the other. I just want MX / SX to stand on it's own, without profiteering muddying the waters. Therein lies a problem because nobody wants to help make motorcycling a better place for free...............the ones that do are usually written off as cranks and idiots.
Massive props for KTM bringing back the minis!!! Some of you guys bag on it but guess what? It's not about you! It gets kids thinkings about something besides video games. As a father I enjoy watching the little ones on the 50's and its great KTM provides this for the KIDS!!!
Carlsbad.....Yes, my friend it is all about turning a profit, and like you I just want the best of our sport!! It does seem short sighted of them, not to reinvest in their cash cow. In the farming community, one must work the soil, plant the seed in the soil, add fertilizer to soil, irrigate the crop and spray to protect the crop, all to increase the yield, which leads to higher profits. It is all about investing your time, effort and money to replenish the soil that feeds you..Shame that other entities just use things up, with complete disregard to planning for the future growth...
Motoranch....I agree, motocross can give kids more to think about than video games. I have been an ATV instructor and Dirt Bike coach for over 15 years. I worry about the safety of the young riders, going over obstacles that were designed for much bigger bikes and riders with higher skill levels. Kids dreaming of riding supercross is fine, we all need a goal, however they need to progress up to that level, not start there. Just my opinion..
I just worry that if a riders union was started to right all the wrongs, eventually that would become corrupted as well.......................all it takes is the introduction of money in to the equasion.
Really would have liked to see where Dungey would have ended up if he hadn't had any shifter issues!! Big props to him for making it work as well as he did, in my opinion he looked just as good as anybody else out there!!! Track and race were much better this year, it was honestly exciting to watch and the added x-factor of the Joker lane really did make it more interesting and unpredictable!! Now, to the powers that be, PLEASE let all of these guys make it to the starting line at A1........and beyond!!
Matthes, you shouldn´t air your provincial mentality publicly. If you knew anything about European MX, you would know we have a distinct MX season, and a distinct off season. It´s always been this way, like tradition. SX is a minor sport here, something to help us get through the cold winter months. It´s not taken seriously by the majority of riders or fans. Bercy is very much a one off, an opportunity to see professional American SXers in action, nothing more. To suggest we would get blown off is to compare apples with pears. Of course we would. We know it, and don´t have any problem with it. It´s just not a European thing. It´s like American football. If we took you on, you´d blow us away, because it´s not played here. In fact, most people here don´t even know what American football is. But if we played European football, what you call soccer, you´d get smoked. I mean, how many times has the USA won the world cup of soccer?
Do you get my drift?
Euromike... Why is supercross not more popular over there and why riders like Cairoli, Herlings and the other GP stars avoid it. ...Genova and Bercy draw a lot of press but few real stars...Those two are bad examples of supercross, as the venues are more arenacross size, but there are plenty of large stadiums, that could be great supercross facilities...The amazing number of Euro fans that support motocross, it seems they would fill those stadiums to watch there heroes race...It could help the local economy as there is a lot of money to be made...
I have much respect of the GP stars, I grew up following the GP's, and appreciate the history behind many of the tracks, as they stay true to the origins of the sport. Congrats on your Nations picks, since we both chose the same riders to win...lol..to the victor go the spoils..Enjoy....ps we are getting better at soccer, our women won the Olympics and our men are now qualifying for the world cup on occasion...
"It´s not taken seriously by the majority of riders or fans"....................EXCEPT, the top 1% of apples want to become pears.
"It´s not taken seriously by the majority of riders or fans"....................Like soccer over here.
"It´s not taken seriously by the majority of riders or fans"....................could be said about Guseppe Luongo.
"In fact, most people here don´t even know what American football is".........like MXGP over here.
The distinction between U.S.M.X & G.P.'s goes both ways so, why get up in arms over it? Clearly, they still do something well.
Maybe if the G.P.'s were a place where a rider could make a living, they wouldn't be so eager to split and come over here. The majority of (G.P.) riders that have ANY "market value" whatsoever, take their acts on the road and come over here.
It's certainly not the fans or riders fault that the G.P.'s have become what they are. That honor(?) lies at the feet of Mr. Luongo and his band of co-conspirators.
There are a lot of (older) people here that remember what the G.P.'s used to be and (still) have a lot of respect for them.
I thought the reason that Americans were generally hated abroad was for being loud & crass. For someone who dis-likes us so much, you sure act like us.
Sorry to jump in your shi*, I'm a little grouchy when I wake up....must be an american thing.....
Im not real big on bringing the 65's back I think a vet race and some top ameture races and maybe super mini racing would be a bigger attraction to the fans. Just scatter a variaty of these throughout the season and I think it would be a big hit
carlsbad wrote:
The distinction between U.S.M.X & G.P.'s goes both ways so, why get up in arms over it? Clearly, they still do something well.
Maybe if the G.P.'s were a place where a rider could make a living, they wouldn't be so eager to split and come over here. The majority of (G.P.) riders that have ANY "market value" whatsoever, take their acts on the road and come over here.
Hey, I agree, but I wasn´t discussing MX.I was discussing SX.
@BD25. The reason? Beats me. Maybe it´s because we don´t have a single series SX championship run throughout Europe. Some enterprising promoter should see the gap, and together with an international brand, something like Monster Energy for example, put a series together, with a USA v Europe showdown at the end of the championsip (think East West lites showdown). If it was done right, and the top Euro riders could make a decent crust, it would take off, no doubt. Just needs the right guy I guess.
I am mixed on bringing the minis back. On one hand, it is a beautiful thing to see these kids get the rockstar treatment. The other side is of course, its not a playground out there.
I'm in favor of the 125 two banger class. A great stepping stone off the minis. The one change that I support 100% is more racing time. Change the laps to minutes plus 2 or raise the lap count to 20 and 25. Give more value to the fans. The cost for the sport increases and it will reflect in price of admission, but the show remains the same. The infrastructure is in place so use it. I hit the arenacross because it is the proximity and logistics that work for my budget. I go to the next day amateur race because of the non-stop action for 6+ hours. What I really want to do is the Atlanta supercross.
Being at the race I think it was a very good event. Most of the races had excitement, and the track design was pretty good. I did like the joker lane in the fact that it kept the crowd guessing on rider strategy, and made it more exciting on who was going to win. The split start was cool, but a little sketchy.
As far as having a 2 stroke class at the races, the problem is that it will be much more dangerous than the 65 class. The 65 class riders for the most part roll everything and is pretty safe other than the ocassional tip over. Now throw in amatuers on a pro SX track on a 125 or 250 (on top of that stock bikes /suspension they have never ridden before) and that is a recipe for disaster in my opinion. We had the best amaturs from Lorettas out there. Now throw out there less skilled amatuers on unfamiliar bikes and I see a lot of crashing.
I definately think that the mains need to be longer. 20 minutes plus 2 laps, etc. This 20 lap main, when lap times at certain tracks are in the mid 40 second range, is way too short.
The problem is the less technical we make the tracks, the more the top riders will complain that the tracks are not technical enough. No matter how the track is designed, riders are going to push themselves to win, and crashes are going to happen.
Awesome article Matthes!
http://www.ridejbi.com/
Motohead...Yes I see your concern, I was thinking of riders the quality we saw the other night, any less skill level would be a recipe for disaster ...maybe get a pro vet class involved would be better..they could race exhibition style..and we could see our heroes again...
@Motohead279
You stated some great points about the 125 idea. I was putting ahead my feelings on the 2stroke not having the relevance it once did. I miss them and will never forget the first time I saw JS scrub (KX 125) at Budds Creek. It took my breath away and I was sure he crashed. I do think its quite a gap between Super mini and 250f machines.
Did you think the Super mini racers at the MEC are a good fit? I'm not calling you out, just seeking enlightenment.
I think its good we can have a voice on this site to grow the sport. Thanks RX.
I say:
Talla-Vega turn at every venue.
Joker lane was great but I think we should really study it out before we make it a part of each Supercross track. Strategy will become almost as important as speed and endurance and I get enough of that with NASCAR.
NO SPLIT STARTS! Awesome to watch but will no doubt lead to losing the top guys to crashes and a lot of injuries. I think we all agree after the last couple years that we need to try and prevent that instead of perpetuate it. We want and the sport needs all the top riders racing every week.
MEC is going to be our Daytona going forward. The days and weeks leading up to the race this year were very exiting as we all counted the days with anticipation. I think the hype will increase each year!!!
@ RCRDDW Agreed on a larger scale take the Talladega turn up into the stands like Pontiac. but across a section that is not used for the races and maybe some mini parastyle section like LA ... And yes they need more venues like charlotte in the days of ryno and albie
casing that triple..........a longer track like dayton a couple of times a year ..
Irish are going down saturday to Oklahoma !
We saw Josh Hansen at Pala today on his ZOOK
DuluthMN...Ought to be a great game, between two historic football schools ND leads the series 8-1...ND ended OU's 47 game win streak in 57', also the last team to beat OU before the streak began...Saturdays game : OU 24 ND 14 .....Let me know if your two are coming through Oklahoma on your way home...meet and buy you a beer!!
BD25, trying to have "that" level of riders at every round is going to be a problem. Remember this field was selected from the best finishers from Loretta's from both the A and B classes combined. Which means unfortunately there are going to be less skilled riders making up a lot of the field. Another problem is that if it's a 125 race, only 2 manufacturers I believe still make one, which then narrows down riders who have one. If say KTM or Yamaha does the event and gives riders bikes, it then again comes down to riders riding a 125 that they are not used to, especially suspension setup. All of this on a full blown SX track. Also remember this track had no whoops either. I just think it would be a massive yard sale.
Blackjack, I think for the most part the track was safe for the superminis class, except for the double down before the finish line. It didn't show it a lot on the TV but they were having a hard time getting over that clean every lap and there were more than a few sketchy moments on that from the very first mini race and throughout the night. Their rear end was bouncing off of it and they were sideways and out of shape before that huge finish line jump. I was saying to myself that it's going to cause a bad crash before the night is over. They didn't catch it on TV, but what caused that big pileup on the 2nd mini race was the kid on the Suzuki who I believe was in third, swapped real bad when he deflected off the landing of that downhill double, and was hit from behind and crashed. Unfortunately other riders were behind and already committed.
As far as having superminis (or 65s) at the regular SX races, I think it's a bad idea, especially with whoops. Superminis and 65cc riders are going to try to jump more than the 50cc riders will. The tracks are just too gnarly. I personally only see a place for the 50s who roll everything.
RCRDDW, I think the joker lane was cool for a one off race, but I don't think it belongs in the SX series.
Motohead... Yes, securing that level of talent would be hard to make the race safe..It was the easy solution to make 2 stroke lovers happy and after watching those fast kids, seemed like a good idea....So after re-thinking it, ..At every round there are many riders who have to load up and go home never getting there moment in the spot light ..Why not give them their 15 minutes of fame...they have practiced the track...could give them a 5 lap consolation race..either separate classes or combine them..either way, it would help them get better, having more time on a supercross track, plus show the fans how special their heroes really are, as some take the talent we see for granted..
As for getting the stars on the track more, I do like my idea of time qualifying, then running two 15 lap mains for the 450's.....it gives us more racing and rewards the fitter riders, even though they would have rest while the 250 main and podium stuff went on....
There are 3 brands making the 125. Husky has a racer. 50 years ago it was tough to beat a Husky.
I'm sorry Carlsbad but your statement of the problem being that its run by a "for profit" makes absolutely no sense to me. Of course it is run by a "for profit". Growing the sport is exactly what they need to bring more money. Making money is a good thing.