What was the most surprising performance at the MXoN?
Monday, October 1, 2012 | 2:55 PM
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PrintWhat was the most surprising performance at the MXoN?
Germany winning their first ever Chamberlain Trophy 3027 votes - 46.8%
Team USA finishing third (snapping a seven year win streak) 2558 votes - 39.5%
Cairoli and Herlings Dominating 888 votes - 13.7%
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Of those choices, isn't Germany winning their first obvious?
Pre-race scuttlebutt had Carioli, Roczen and Herlings doing almost exactly what they did.
I picked Germany in the other RacerX poll last week asking which team had the best chance to win over USA. I just looked a little at 2012 results of some of their team members and the Germans seemed the logical choice to me.
Barcia having the best showing of our team was a surprise.
Too bad USA getting lapped was not one of the choices it would have garnered 98 percent.
Germany winning wasn't a shock to me. I originally picked them 3rd behind US and france, then franch swapped out Pourcel for moog, so I figured germany would be real close. With a chance to win depending if we had more than one bad moto. I expted Roczen beat our guys in both motos. I was suprised how well Baggett rode his 2nd moto. I think he was the only one not feeling pressure and rode loose for Team USA
@jgray201,
Barcia didn't have best showing. But I know what you mean.
Dungey 7, 9 for 16
Barcia 14, 3 for 17
Baggett 14, 6 for 20
I think it's funny that no one has even mention Tanel Leok in none of the discussions after the race. As he was "best of the rest" from Cairoli and Herling...
Not4Show don't forget Barcia's 2nd moto, He rode very well, If he did as well in his first moto we would have finished 2nd, or if RD did not crash in the last moto we could have won.
.I am not playing what if but I just think we were a LOT closer to winning than most people are saying. Not going to run with Herlings or Carolia but we did not have to and we knew that going in. the goal was to win the Cup not moto's and with 2 less crashes we would have.
@ ceasar; agreed. I don't remember him having a outstanding ride at Lirop. Or what about Paulin? He was on AC's tail for a while! that surprised me. AC and JH did what I expected them to do. I actually had my money on Belgium not Germany.
The Europeans rode beautifully and certainly showed us a thing or two. Really cool for Germany, and I'm really happy especially for Roczen. He took way too much crap for what really was a great rookie year here, and he showed us that he's got to be considered one of the very best in the world. I was really surprised Dungey hit the ground in both motos, just goes to show how difficult that sand stuff is. Barcia needs to find a proper balance of heart and head in his riding. He looked like an idiot and cost us a ton of points. That move on DeDyker in his first moto was one of the dumbest things I've seen in a long time.
One of the most surprising elements, in my opinion, was seeing Ken Roczen finally ride like he did all last year in the GP's when he claimed the FIM World MX2 Championship.
I am not quite sure what this 2012 US Nationals had in the way of an effect on the young German, other than 3 or 4 of the best riders in the world lining up on the gate next to him, but I am sure the intimidation factor was huge. So, maybe when he got back within his own element he just allowed himself to be the real MX2 Champ that he is. Maybe the same sort of unexplainable situation that overcame Dungey, Barcia, and Baggett this weekend. When is the last time you saw Ken Roczen lap Blake Baggett this summer. Well, explain that one!
This was a very different MXdN than I ever expected to see. Nuff Said!
YES on Tanel Leok, Paulin, agree frita and warrior. Yes on the idiot part, esp. AND the wreck-scaring Dungey into the ground. I hear people talk up JB's day and I wonder if they saw the same races.
As far as almost winning as someone said above, do notice that points-wise we were closer to 6th than 2nd.
You only learn from mistakes... if you see them as mistakes. Kinda need the second part or it doesn't really work out.
caseypons, agree, though this was not the 1st time we saw Roczen on a 250 beat Dungey on a 450 in an MXdN. 1st time in the sand, however. Could have been the day Roczen got his mojo back.
Dungey crashed in the last three Nationals I do believe
JimM
Pala374
BillC,
Thats why I agree,
Barcia was 1 bad decision in Moto 2 from coming in 3rd(the runinng in where he hit De Dycker and ruined his wheel).
And, not really sure what happened with Dungey I expected top 5 in both motos. My hat goes off to Baggett coming in 6th in Moto 2.
Yeah it sucks our boys lost, but we will be back at them next year.
Elsinoreracer,
This is the 3rd year in a row Roczen has won the MX2 class, and he is only 18. That includes the race in Colorado. Where he beat Canard and the last 2 years where he beat Baggett. I think He will be much closer to Baggett next year in the outdoors.
Its also the first time Cairoli has gone without some sort of bike issue(like 07 where he didn't have his suspension) or broken bone or sick.
Next year if Dungey is picked for the team(which would be hard not to with Decoster being manager) and Barcia gets picked(because RV is hurt or someother reason). I think they will be out for blood to reddeem themselves after this years poor showing. I think Baggett is the best American 250 rider(even though I'm not his fan) and will be right there with Roxzen in Germany next year..
I said before this race started that Caroli, Herlings & Roczen would have good rides, and they did, it's really no surprise, I also said that USA would do well if they had good rides, which they didn't, If they could stay on 2 wheels their results could have been much better, not very often those guys are on the ground that much, they need more time on the deep sand tracks, they did very well to podium consisdering all the sand samples & Barcia's front wheel issue. The biggest surprise was Germany winning, even they were surprised! This race is a just a matter of consistency and good finishes inside the top 10, can't see Italy or Netherlands ever winning an overall at the Nations when they only have one good rider from their country's.
Not to change the subject..., but who besides me would love to see Herlings & Cairoli come to Monster Energy Cup?
The more skilled riders, the better!
i kinda disagree wiv some of your thoughts on how team USA rode.....
i think BB was the stand out best...i wasnt a fan of his but i am now 100%....
he rode smart....smooth and moved forward....and on lites bike...thats would of been soo hard for him
RD i think met his 1st teal weakness..in his own skills...for the 1st time that iv seen he wasnt stable and smooth he looked very scetchy...that isnt a RD trate
JB has some skills and showed that RD hasnt had much comp this yr outdoors...by catching him....his just 2 aggressive....he got the nick name bam bam and its almost like he feels he needs to live up 2 it??.....he needs to carm down and think..
re name him the chicken....
as for how the sport is over there....its all about tv and sponsors.....supercross has taken over.
thing is it was supercross that made ur riders so good...race the track sprint fly the bike...all thoughs jump techs that were invented...all came from supercross...
the nats have such amazing tracks!!! but again...kinda going away from the roots of the sport...but thats evolution....alot of are tracks have 2....
southwick is ok but just think what RD BB JB will do there now lol...its smooth is what there say!!!.....there must be some deep sandy land to build a good old scrambel track on for the nats.....less jumps more ruff....its part of the sport of mx
obviously none of you have ever ridden in knarly sand! if you dont have the flow&see; lines and have the bike set up, you might as well be wrestling a steer around that joint. its like in tennis, the clay court specialists cant do anything on grass or hard court. oh by the way dungy doesnt fall, barcias bike doesnt break we still win. but we didnt deserve to win there were a bunch of guys faster than our guys.
The common belief now seems to be that the Euro's are just as fast as the Americans, if not faster... From what I can see, this is incorrect.
The USA team won the previous 7 years. Let's just say they won because they had the mxon on tracks that are "more like USA style tracks". So the track style advantage = USA win.
Now this year, they raced on a more "Euro style" track. With that ind mind, USA surely wouldn't do that great. They'd lose to the Euro's. Just like the USA dominated "our style" tracks, the Euro's would dominate "their style" tracks.
But, we still got 3rd. Out of xx teams, we still placed 3rd. 3rd place.
Again, we got 3rd place against a number of Euro teams (That as the Euro's admit these sand tracks are where their riders "grew up").
You can say all you want about the skill of the Euro's but the USA was STILL able to produce a 3rd place on a track type very few of our riders have ever ridden.
Pound for pound, the USA produces the best group of riders on the planet. Period.
Put the next race on the moon. I bet the moon men win.
Put the race after that on the bottom of the ocean. I bet the Whale MX'ers win.
Put the next year's race on the forest moon of Endor. I bet the Ewok's win.
And you know who will take 2nd or 3rd every time? USA.
hmm....see its that silly tlk that starts rows lol.....the size that USA is you should win every time!!! never loose.....and you should win on anything!!! any track and no 1 should even get a sniff of ya!!!...ya rock is huge!!!!!
the example is if we was 2 unite are states...or countrys.....TC222 KROC JH...all of a sudden uv a strong team....just like u have every yr!!!....
so no you dont have the best riders you have the best choice from a large rock!!
foreget lommel.... take last yr....hard pack ....RV was beaten fair in moto 2 by
herlins .....and BB didnt do what Kroc did for the last 3yrs at the nations
truth is the top euros and top yanks are very close in speed.....the euros are just split up in stupid little countrys...your united
When was the last time the US swept all 3 motos? 2007?
feel free to keep in mind that Germany is the size of Ohio and Italy is maybe the size of Rhode Island as we're tooting our horn about how good we are. We are great but really shouldn't we be?
@SlasherMcGee,
Put the 3 best fighters in the world, in a ring with 300, they will loose. But one for one.... the odds are much much better.... CAPICHE?
dooweb2 wrote: about 40 minutes ago
feel free to keep in mind that Germany is the size of Ohio and Italy is maybe the size of Rhode Island as we're tooting our horn about how good we are. We are great but really shouldn't we be?
yeah man, we are 60,626,442 in Italy and the cost is double for a dirt bike, gear, etc... you guys are 311,591,917 where to pick from
I was really shocked at the results. I really did think Cairoli and Herlings were overated and the U.S. would give them some competition. I was wrong. They took us out behind the woodshed and gave us a spanking.
Are they out of shape? No , not if you look at the roughness of the track and thier lap times especially at the end of the motos. . Please do not look at out lap times.
If I were to include this track as part of the U.S nationals I would say it is the roughest track X 2. I went to several nationals this summer and after every moto out came the dozers. Why?............. Lommel was smooth for a little while and then allowed to be rough. I saw them smooth the start and the face of a few jumps but for the most part it was left alone. U.S . tracks have become a mix of supercross and smoothed out motocross. If you never ride a track as rough as this and try to learn it in a week you will look like a B novice at a national. One of the reasons the Euros do not do well here is because our tracks have become so smooth. Elsinore looked like a scrambles track with a few supercross jumps. Line selection. Whats that ? Don't need it on U.S. tracks. The dozers will make sure of that. We just raced a true motocross track and got smoked. Ask Hannah what he thinks of smoothing out Unadilla. They used to leave all the bumps and overseed with grass. So you know next year was even rougher. Funny part was on a GP race at Lommel they say it is much rougher than it was for MX of Nations due to increased racing. Also did anyone notice how wide and how many lines each corner and straight had. I counted 6 in one sweeping turn. In the U.S . you are lucky to find two. All of the nationals I went to this summers were often only twelve to 15 foot wide in places. Supercross is even worse.
Supercross made us fast in terms of obstacles and jumping ablility. . But now by racing only that we are becoming less than world class. And with the average supercross lasting 17 minutes why train. If you get the wholeshot and banzai a few jumps you will win. I always have laugh when a factory rider claims arm pump 10 minutes into a 17 minute main.
Barcia will do good in supercross due to starts
Baggett will not do so well as he hits his stride at about 17 minutes.
Glen Helen was one of the roughest on the circuit and they jerked it.
All anyone has talked about is how horribly the U.S. team did, yet they still finished on the podium. It just goes to show how incredibly good every U.S. team is.
if anything it only kinda makes up for RV crushing them on a 250.......I think they gave it their best....NOBODY is slow or can't still flat haul.......we got beat it happens ...so were human....see you next year on an even playing field or at the MILLION easy dollars you could get whippin up on us again at the Monster CUP......would LOVE to see it.....
Are you all dkicheads?
Max Nagel was the suprise, he recently came back from injury, and it was his last ride on the KTM.
Negative surprise: Musquin. He'd better get faster, that guy is the shadow of who he was till 2010.
Nagl was a positive surprise: I am pretty sure that he didn't give his all in the third moto, he can be much faster on this kind of track.
It goes to show just how good Carmichael was, he came to Belgium at the 2003 mxon and smoked everyone on a 250 2 STROKE. The track was very similar with deep sand and most of his competion were on 450's. The US did not win that year but everyone knew which country had the quickest rider on the planet. Fact of matter is team USA were the most suprising riders of the event because even after riding the track they were expecting to win again this year and although they finished 3rd the result is still good but they were very disappointing as far as speed goes.
the most surprising thing at mxon was the big gap of the top europe guys herlings,carioli.. from the american guys..yes dungey won carioli in 2010 in thunder valley with 5 seconds gap after the battle they had..but this was unbelieveable..1.11 the gap between carioli and dungey..helrings lapped bagget..de coster said it was totally different track for us,it was like a european guy coming to anaheim..excuses..i can remember pourcel coming to supercross and having great results..
If you're lucky enough to have a good understanding of the sport in a Worldwide context, then none of the three options above was in the least bit surprising.
The most surprising thing was perhaps that Leok & Guaneri were able to lap Bagget and Barcia in the second moto and that Dungey was close to being lapped in the last race.
Barcia would have had a 5th and a 3rd if his front wheel would have held together a little longer. Outstanding ride for the conditions and his first time.
Pitbull...if Pourcel's wheel didn't break, he would have some other excuse for dnf'-ing. DNF is in his DNA. But, biggest surprise has to go to Canada. C'mon, guys, just sneak your bikes and gear into the U.S.'s shipment.
It really is unfare to compare the pool of mx riders from the USA (600 mill?) to for instance Holland (17 mill) or Belgium (14mill) or any other Euro country. lets do a MX Ryder cup ( as in golf?). 15 best European riders against 15 best USA riders?
Would love to see this happening in a race in USA and following year in Europe?
I think you doubled the US Pop there buddy.
just was looking at the thunder valley nations....germany was leading that going in2 the last moto....and that was on your turf....so was it a suprise they won....???
they have 2 riders that can ride any track very fast...
just food for thought....there at home next year....im not saying they will win but its clear on past results they will not be easy....
For sure the biggest surprise for me was that our guys got lapped. If we look back from 2004 until now in mxdn we cant say that we are the fastest. Look at moto wins, but we have always 3 top riders. Will never forget what ac 222 and everts did to bubba and rv.
Dungey being totally unprepared was the big surprise for me.
Some people need to realize that our guys in sand like that is akin to holding the MXoN on the Anaheim 1 track and watching Cairoli and Herlings lap everyone there......well maybe not THAT bad. Strange though that it seems the people now thinking that the whole world has passed America's best in speed now were the ones saying how much they would be like fish out of water on this track.
The fact is that the track was an equalizer and if all the US riders rode up to their potential the US would have won again. They didn't and the team that did won. But it seems that many now are thinking this will spill over to every track, that Roczen found something between here and the Nationals.....what he found was a sand track he has raced on many times. Lest anyone think Nagl and DeDyker are smoking Dungey anywhere else? Maybe Leok needs to come cherry-pick the Nationals next year and stop beating his head against the wall in the GPs.
@B-KR what are you waffling on about?
No one is suggesting that the 'whole world has passed America's best in speed'. Everyone knows that Baggett, Barcia & Dungey are sensational riders and everyone knows where the American riders excel.
European fans are simply rejoicing in the fact that finally the GP riders have had their chance to prove to ignorant American fans that the racing is different over here. Not better, just different.
Whats more, we've had to read ridiculous statements that our 'B-League riders' supposedly wouldn't crack the top 10 in the Nationals, so watching handfuls of GP riders LAP US champions has been somewhat of payback for such ridiculous arrogance.
As many said before in others posts - all riders at the mxon where great.
Team Germany win was ok that had the best results - and yes we could have done it in 2010 on U.S. soil - but a mistake by Max Nagl took it away - no blaming here that's just MX no rider goes 2 motos without errors (small or big).
Team USA and the AMA shoud just rethink their locations and tracks maintenance. Here in Germany at the national races (ADAC MX Masters 8 races) is little to no track grooming if possible (they race 450, 250 and 85), even our young 85 riders get use to a totally damaged track and the stronger boys love rough tracks, it always separates the good riders even more from mid pack.
As for the obstacles and jumps - there is a trend here to reshape the tracks like U.S. tracks with more whoops, doubles, triples and so on. Most of the time it is only a thing in the riders head to jump double or triple or a 90ft table top - distance is the same, but you need to get used to the leap between double and triples.
SX is NON EXISTENT in europe compared to the U.S. especially in germany. Ken Roczen built his own SX style track when he was very young and trained form the early beginning to become a complete rider. This is unusual for germany where SX is considered just dangerous (and it maybe!?).
Also our so called SX races all over here in europe are more like U.S. arena cross.
I would love to see a Ryder Cup like MX event Euros against the U.S. - maybe just the Top 10 riders from each class!?
After that event we would know who is better and the event to be held 1 year in the U.S. and one year in Europe.
Anyway the MXON is GREAT EVEWRY SINGLE YEAR!
Now bring on SX 2013 :-D we're all waiting for A1!