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Observations: Lake Elsinore

Wednesday, September 12, 2012 | 10:00 AM

This is it; the last round of the 2012 Pro Motocross Championships took place in sunny and hot Lake Elsinore, California. A brand new track and facility greeted the teams and questions like, “Can Blake Baggett hold onto a 14-point lead in the 250 Class?” “Dude, can you get me a ticket?” and “Hey, where’s Jeremy McGrath?” were all looming in the air.

The reviews from the riders were mixed on the track. It basically came down to whether you liked riding in Southern California because really, it was a SoCal track through and through. It was hard and slippery and when you put water on it, the track became even gnarlier. If you were Broc Tickle, live right up the road and ride this stuff all the time, you didn’t mind riding there. If you were an east coast guy, then you definitely didn’t like it. No matter where the Nationals went (Glen Helen or Pala) or where they go now (Hangtown, Elsinore), the California tracks are weird and different from anything else in the series.

It was unbelievable the amount of thought, effort and money that went into the all-new facility at Lake Elsinore. I hadn’t been there for a long time and I didn’t even recognize the place. The National track went onto the off-road truck course as well, which gave the fans a nice view of one side of the track with bleachers and concessions right there. I thought the track was pretty good and I hate to use the cliché sports term of “It is what it is” but really, it is what it is. It’s a California track and with the sun out, it’s really hard to keep any track in California from turning into hard pack. (Note to track workers: Throwing enough water onto it to sink the Titanic before the first motos doesn’t work—it just makes it dangerous). In my opinion, they need to shorten it up a bit because it was so spaced out and you couldn’t see half the track, the fans would be sitting there in those bleachers for a long time with nothing to watch.

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Dungey won his tenth straight overall at Lake Elsinore.
Simon Cudby photo

The bottom line: Is Lake Elsinore the best track of the series? No. Is it the worst track of the series? No. The facilities, proximity to the teams and most riders, sponsor access and everything else make it a good race to have on the schedule in my opinion.

Pro Circuit’s Blake Baggett put a stamp on the championship. All of us goofs in the media worked the angles and figured out what he had to do to win the title (he needed to go 4-3!). We couldn't figure out how he was going to withstand the Eli Tomac heat and oh my, his margin of error was so slim. Whatever was he going to do?

Uh yeah, he went 1-2 for the overall, crashed pretty good and still got up and basically smoked everyone not named Justin Barcia (and he was closing big time on Barcia at the end). His second moto start was terrible, he was fourth or fifth from last going into the second turn and came out after one lap in eleventh! His last lap time was his fastest and it was THREE seconds faster than anyone else in the class. Yeah, he hadn’t been making a lot of statements with his riding in the last three or four weeks but he definitely made one at Elsinore. He wasn’t going to back into any title. He was going to take it and man, what an impressive ride on the day.

And with that, he’s got the 2012 250 National Motocross Championship under his belt, his first title for Pro Circuit (and as a team, it was PC’s 100th win in motocross). To think, three years ago Mitch Payton had room for either Blake Baggett or Dean Wilson under his tent. Both rode Kawasaki’s, both were amateur champions and it was a coin flip to pick one of them, and Wilson won. And last year, Wilson won Payton a 250 Motocross Championship. But after Baggett spent a year on Suzuki’s, Mitch signed him and now he wins a title. Sometimes, you can have your cake and eat it too.

GEICO Honda’s Eli Tomac was certainly on a roll coming into the final round and he gave it his all to try and make this title interesting. Basically, Eli had to go 1-1 and hope for some luck from the Moto Gods. Anything less than that and it was going to be really hard to get the title. And in the first moto Tomac didn’t get the start he wanted and charged hard to catch the disappearing Baggett. He put in an extremely fast 2:41 to BB’s 2:45 to get close but that was it, he blew himself up in the California sun. The next lap was five seconds slower and he cried No Mas. The next moto out, he face-planted pretty badly and that was it, the dream was over. He even lost second in the points but still had a really great year. Last year at the Nationals we didn’t know what we had in Tomac. He didn’t appear to be taking that next step into the upper echelon but now, one year later with a supercross title under his belt, there’s no doubt he’s one of the very best.

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Could Tomac be heading to the 450 Class for the Nationals next year?
Simon Cudby photo

Rumors abounded and were sort of confirmed that Tomac just might be moving to the 450’s next year for motocross. Stay tuned.

With the temperatures super hot, the track rough and slippery and not much fun for the guys, and a championship long sewn up, KTM’s Ryan Dungey didn’t have to put in his best effort of the series. The guy’s long proven that he’s the best rider out there right now (and by the way, did you guys hear that Jeff Stanton, an icon in the sport, said that Barcia, Baggett and Tomac could beat Ryan Dungey right now on DMXS? I’ll definitely, without a doubt, 100 percent disagree with that statement and ask that we immediately drug test Jeff, as well) and at LE, he did it again. Catching and passing Mike Alessi both motos, going off the track a bunch of times, pushing hard each and every lap, and again going 1-1 on the day.

I’ve said it before but you can really put a quote from one of my all-time favorite movies and move it over to Dungey “Listen, and understand. That terminator Dungenator is out there. It can't be bargained with. It can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely will not stop, ever, until you are dead beaten.”

Mike Alessi ended up 2-2 and it was as much of a victory as a 2-2 can possibly be in that he was clearly better than Broc Tickle at a 3-3 and basically showed that he had 38 other guys beat. The weird thing about Alessi is that he never, ever, ever seems to get it into his brain that he’s not as good as Dungey. Just like when he was getting second behind James Stewart in every moto in 2008, and he was happy about the seconds he made up during the last lap while Stewie was waving to the crowd, Alessi fights Dungey tooth and nail most times (Steel City last week was an exception) and even tries to strike back. I’m sure this drives Dungey crazy because he, and everyone else watching, knows that eventually Ryan’s speed and fitness will carry him to the win. Everyone knows this and accepts this but Mike.  And I admire this. Mike fights and claws his way to the best finish he can each week and he ended up second in the points—some one hundred clear of Weimer.

Broc Tickle just keeps on riding the wave with his very fast LE race. As much as Alessi was a dominant 2-2, Broc was a dominant 3-3. He was all alone out there. There’s no rider that improved their stock as much as Tickle did this summer. He ended up a scant few points out of third and actually had three mechanicals this year. Give him a tenth each time out (totally doable) and he’s third overall in his debut on a 450 outdoors. And on that note, three DNF’s for a Pro Circuit rider in 24 motos? What? Next you’re going to tell me that some white-trash New Jersey kids by the shore are going to be turned into multi-millionaires by chronicling their sex lives and their shallowness! Egads!

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Baggett chasing down Barcia en route to his first career title.
Simon Cudby photo

According to Mitch Payton, Tickle’s going to Hart & Huntington next year on a Suzuki with Ricky Carmichael playing a huge role. It’s going to be interesting to watch and see if Tickle has reached his ceiling or if he can get better with another year in the class. I have to admit, his outdoor season kind of came out of nowhere for me as I had him definitely below the Justin Braytons and Kyle Chisholms of the world but he showed me and everyone else that he’s capable of much more.

Let’s take a look at the results shall we?


250 Overall

1-Blake Baggett 1-2 Kaw
2-Justin Barcia 3-1 Hon- Barcia got nipped by Tomac in the first moto otherwise the overall would’ve been his. He rode well on this day but he was no match for Baggett and like many others, his strength is not in the west coast tracks.
3-Marvin Musquin 4-3 KTM- Yeah Moose-can! Another podium for the guy that should be even better in 2013.
4-Wil Hahn 5-4 Hon- LE was Hahn’s best overall finish on the year and he rode well both times out. He got good starts and that’s a very important key to doing well in the 250 Class. Just call me Captain Obvious.
5-Malcolm Stewart 7-6 KTM- Yet another strong race for Mookie. The fever isn’t back yet but it’s coming on. I’ve got the chills starting already.
6-Ken Roczen 6-7 KTM- Roczen wasn’t very Roczen-like at LE. Based on his standards, mailed it in.
7-Eli Tomac 2-14 Hon
8-Blake Wharton 8-8 Suz- 8-8 for eighth overall! Not often that it works out like that but for the under-the-radar Wharton, it did this time.
9-Jeremy Martin 10-10 Yam- This finish is strong for anyone but I feel like certain people in the industry oversold me on Martin. Maybe that’s it, I’m not sure. The kid is fast but I’ve been hearing about him coming for a long time.
10-Jessy Nelson 9-13 Hon- Thumbs up to this ride! No, I know that sounds bad but after having him on the Pulpmx Show a couple weeks ago I feel I can make this joke about the one thumb-less Nelson. He’s a cool kid.
11-Kyle Cunningham 14-9 Yam
12-Jason Anderson 31-5 Suz- Anderson’s pants were falling down in the second moto and as the laps wound down we were getting more and more of a look into him. No really, it was enough already.
13-Justin Bogle 15-11 Hon- Bogle gets a mulligan for his first full season as a pro. Some ups, some downs, some injuries. 2013 is huge for Justin in determining which way he’s going to go as a pro.
14-Travis Baker 11-15 Hon
15-Dillan Epstein 17-12 Kaw- Epstein’s first race as a pro was pretty good, I think, as a complete privateer. I know there was talk of him maybe going to Pro Circuit for next year but I don’t believe that is going to happen. Hey, Blake Baggett on a privateer Pro Circuit Kawasaki 250F went 12-23 at his first ever National. Just sayin…
16-Kyle Peters 13-16 Yam- Where do I sign the “Dear Star Racing, keep Kyle Peters and don’t do what you did with Wil Hahn, Darryn Durham and Gannon Audette” petition? I’m all in, man. Peters deserves another shot.
17-Alex Martin 16-17 Hon- A-Mart didn’t have a good day at LE as he went backwards in the second moto quickly. It’s not surprising though, I’ve always thought of Alex as an east coast guy, needing the softer stuff to shine. Remember, he literally has sand whoops in his back yard.
18-Cole Thompson 12-30 Yam- The Canadian kid got his best finish of the year in the 250 Class in the first moto but DNF’d the second with what looked to be illness of some sort. Did he do enough to be kept on at Star? I’m not sure and in the words of Trent Dilfer, “It could go either way, Boom.”
19-Killy Rusk 25-18 Hon
20-Dakota Tedder 18-21 Kaw

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Ben LaMay scored his first top ten overall of the season at Elsinore.
Simon Cudby photo

450 Overall

1-Ryan Dungey 1-1 KTM
2-Mike Alessi 2-2 Suz
3-Broc Tickle 3-3 Kaw
4-Tyla Rattray 4-4 Kaw- Rattray had to pull in for goggles in moto two so his finish was even better, right? Anytime you have a pit stop in a moto, lose three spots and then pass the three dudes on the next lap, it’s a good day. I don’t know for sure but I hear rumblings of Rattray going to the MC/Brooks Honda team for next year.
5-Jake Weimer 5-9 Kaw- Weimer was really good at LE. Due to a combination of crashes and hitting neutral ten feet out of the gate, he had to pass 42 riders in two motos to snatch third place in the points with some awesome rides. He deserves it, no doubt about it. Also, he probably won another RC Hard Charger Award, which might be his 63rd this year. Oh man, who can forget the days of Carmichael passing so many riders each and every moto? He was always known for coming from way, way back….
6-Justin Brayton 12-5 Hon- Brayton’s leaving Honda for JGR next year and went out with a 24th to 12th charge in the first moto. Then he was top five in his final race on red.
7-Christian Craig 7-10 Hon
8-Andrew Short 8-13 Hon- Short was in the hospital with some sort of infection during the week and he really didn’t want anyone to know. I know he didn’t tell me, he didn’t make any excuses after the race but I found out anyways. His LE National was not good in any way, shape or form. He lost third in the points because of it as well.
9-Ben LaMay 10-12 Yam- Great race for LaMay who probably wishes the season wasn’t ending. A ten-race points scoring streak shot him up to 15th in the final points and the 9th at LE was his best finish of the year. Great job for the long-time privateer.
10-Weston Peick 13-11 Suz- Peick’s only raced four motos this year and has done well in all of them. Hopefully it helps him find a ride; his supercross season was very good as well.
11-Josh Grant 35-6 Kaw- Grant crashed out in the first moto, which his teammate Chisholm did as well. So stellar start to the day for JWR Racing.
12-Jimmy Albertson 11-16 Suz- Top Jimmy had his best National of the year at the last National of the year. Maybe not his best finish but the best two motos of the year and it couldn’t come at a better time with him looking for a ride for 2013. Albertson ended up outside the top 20 in the points due to injury and ineffectiveness while out there. Harsh I know but he’s my buddy and you always want your buddy to give it to you straight, right? No one wants to find out after they dumped the pill-popping stripper girlfriend that all your friends were just lying to you about how awesome she was, right?
13-Kyle Regal 6-32 Yam- Hallelujah! Regal gets a sixth which is something we all know he can do but couldn’t seem to do this summer. Yeah he pulled out again in the second moto but at least we saw that he’s still got “it” a little bit. His terrible outdoor season is going to go down with “What happened to the Mayans?” and “Is there really a Bermuda Triangle?” as the great questions still left in this world.
14-Nico Izzi 38-7 Yam
15-Kyle Chisholm 28-8 Kaw- Chiz DNF’d the first moto after colliding with Davi Millsaps. Second moto he passed a couple of guys, a couple guys passed him and he got eighth.
16-Vince Friese 15-14 Suz
17-Fredrik Noren 9-30 Hon- Oh man, Noren had a great first moto and had his best day ever lined up when he was a solid tenth until halfway when he pulled off with what looked to be a wrist injury. Bummer, bro, or as they say in Swedish, “En bra och dålig dag bro”
18-Derek Anderson 14-20 Kaw- Anderson was the story after round two in Texas, and then sort of didn’t become any more of a story due to injuries and probably the impact of driving a van around the country while trying to race professional motocross. I do know that LE was his first race since Washougal where he got points in both motos so there’s that.
19-Preston Mull 16-19 Hon- I don’t know anything about Mull and when I mentioned this to the retiring Jason Thomas, he said: “He’s a nice dude,” so that’s good enough for me.
20-Bobby Kiniry 31-15 Yam- Bad day for Meathead Kiniry, he lost a chance to move into 15th in points and actually got passed by a bunch of riders as well due to his poor showing at LE. Oh well, the dude missed five rounds because of races in Canada and still made top twenty. It's not a home run, but to me that is a solid triple.

No, I’m not the retiring Jason Thomas’s press agent, I just seem like it. The #66, 16-year privateer hero hung it up with a farewell race of 24-24 and it was cool to see the fans seemingly wishing him well all day long.

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A bid farewell to Jason Thomas who is retiring at the end of 2012.
Simon Cudby photo

With that, I present to you the top ten reasons why Jason Thomas is retiring:

10- He’s got a better offer to become a star in the Disneyland “Seven Dwarfs” show
9- He’s tired of eating roost from all the fast guys
8- His mom Cindy has been a thirty-year plus scorer for the AMA and seeing as how she’s hanging it up, JT has decided to keep the family tradition going and will be next seen scoring Anaheim 1 2013
7- He finally was forced into a severe mental breakdown from being ragged on non-stop by Chad Reed
6- The Pulpmx Show just pays better
5- He’s now the lead shipper/receiver at BTOSports.com
4- He finally realized that making up his own rhythms in supercross wasn’t the fast way around the track
3- Two words, BIG JUMPS
2- Feld and MX Sports are instituting a “You have to be THIS tall to race” signs by the starting gates in 2013 and he doesn’t come to the bottom of the clown's hand.
1- Sixteen years is a long time to do anything, never mind race dirt bikes professionally

 

Thanks for reading, email me [email protected] if you’ve got some time on your hands and want to chat.

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The Conversation

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BlueStallion87 wrote: 10:49am September 12, 2012

Good review of the new LEMP motocross park Matthes, I agree about the "is what it is" statement. It seems like the circuit has become overly engrossed in the thought that every track needs perfect loam, otherwise it's a heaping dog pile. Hard pack exists in nature too, not just on SX tracks.

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Claxton wrote: 10:53am September 12, 2012

What ever terrain is out there learn to ride it and stop complaining and you end up like Baggett, RV, and Dungey.

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BillC wrote: 11:02am September 12, 2012

Tomac just might be moving to the 450’s !!!!! YES!!!!!!

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BillC wrote: 11:02am September 12, 2012

With Reed is my guess!!! I would put some big coin on it!!

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BillC wrote: 11:05am September 12, 2012

and by the way, did you guys hear that Jeff Stanton, an icon in the sport, said that Barcia, Baggett and Tomac could beat Ryan Dungey right now on DMXS?


.LOL the Dunge gets no Respect!!!

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yamalink wrote: 11:11am September 12, 2012

Indeed, Alessi likes to comment how he was only 1.5 seconds behind or "catching Dungey at the end". He's like the high schooler happy with Sloppy Seconds ("She wasn't totally unconscious and even said my name, well, part of it.")

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MustardDog wrote: 11:33am September 12, 2012

Stanton should talk- It is a different world in the 450 class, ask any fast 250 rider when they move up. Oh yea, Dungy won it first year. I think Tomac had a 250 championship in him for next year, but another fast 450 rider, bring it on.

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britisharmpump wrote: 12:20pm September 12, 2012

iv got to say i really rate tomac.....good style always on the rite place on the bike
smooth but attacks the track....and has raw speed....i think he could well be the next really fast american....

id love to see him go to 22motorsports.....he would learn so much from reed...and show reed some tricks to......hope this rumour has some truth to it..

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65cobra wrote: 12:20pm September 12, 2012

Why can't we just bring Glen Helen back instead of these silt bed tracks?

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davidl wrote: 12:35pm September 12, 2012

I would be afraid to say that BB,ET and JB could beat RD. I do find it interesting that many times they were faster than RD in lap times and overall laptimes. The unknown is that RD was not really pushed to win and I feel he could and would have gone faster if needed. I have a feeling that ET will be deadly once he gets the 450 figured out. I would love to see ET ride for 22.
I feel that Barcia peaked this year at a level under BB and ET, but also feel the 450 suits him better than the 250- so this will be interesting.
RV will have his hands full defending his SX title and regaining his MX title, he will have to be better than he ever has to stay on top.
MXON will be VERY interesting to see how Barcia and Baggat do with RD- I feel we are in for a suprise that is not so suprising !
MEC will be a tasty preveiw of 2013

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mit12 wrote: 1:36pm September 12, 2012

Lap times between the 250's and 450,s are not a good indicator of a riders speeds. There are way to many factors that are involved. Just like when RV was posting faster lap times than JS when JS had a perfect year. RV was in a full on battle and JS was cruising with big leads over Allessi.

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dinosaurmedia wrote: 2:02pm September 12, 2012

Exactly mit12 - people have really short memories- as well look at the first two rounds when RD and JS were pushing each other...their laptimes were faster than the 250 guys...JS steps out and slowly Dungeys lap times became more in-line with that of the fast 3 250 riders.

Regarding Tomac on the 450 - he will most likely take the ride Geico from KDub - who won't be doing the nationals next year anyway...however the 250 nationals is a big deal and Hondas best chance at the title is ELI Osborne, Bell, Bogle have not proven to be on the same second as Bagget much less faster) - his dad can tailer his diet and training to shave a precious few pounds off of him is that is the issue.

My money says the "money" - (no not literally) keeps ET in the 250 class next year

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dinosaurmedia wrote: 2:07pm September 12, 2012

Not a huge Dungey fan but i have a TON of respect for him and do not get how people keep underestimating him - while guys are on the couch laid up injured this guy is carving his name into the record books...so if that is not enough we are supposed to believe (by a few) that the upcoming 250 riders are going to step right in and beat him (based on meaningless laptime statistics i.e. 250f v 450f)...one day they'll beat him maybe and maybe even a round or two next year but in the grand scheme of things (championship) you would literally have to be a fool to bet against this guy.

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Shredder wrote: 3:40pm September 12, 2012

ET is under contract with Geico, but I could certainly see him riding KW's bike for the outdoors next year....

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griffter wrote: 4:22pm September 12, 2012

I think those three could finish ahead of Dungey often enough, but Dungey has that consistency thing going for him, which often wins out in the end. Then again, Dungey could be a 5'th to 8'th place guy next year....who knows.

In any case, there will be some serious battling next year.

I am wondering, with all the new talent in the 450 class, where Mike Alessi will typically be finishing.

I also really wonder how Hansen will do in supercross next year if he is on a factory (or Pro Circuit) 450. He was pretty consistently in the top 5 area on the H+H bike before getting hurt.

I think Shredder is right about Tomac on the Geico 450....which means, we still don't know who will be on Reeds team.

Wait, how about this, I just heard that Baggett will be on a 450 next year....

Actually, I just made that up.....lol

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carlsbad wrote: 4:35pm September 12, 2012

Thanks dinosaurmedia & Shredder for reminding everybody that E.T. isn't going anywhere, 2-2 m-sports or otherwise.

He will be under GEICO contract until Honda proper snaps him up......unless he wants something different (KTM?), he will get whatever he desires (contract-wise)from Big Red.

Rattray to McBrooks? Sounds like a winner..............outdoors. SX, not so much.

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davidl wrote: 5:52pm September 12, 2012

RD definatly had it easy this year in MX and I fully expect him to step it up in 2013. He will and I don't see him being shuffled back in the pack much at all- I believe in him. However he will have to improve a lot to stay in front. I feel he will be top three in both sx and mx next year. Somehow I feel CR will also ride his best ever. I am pulling for RV to win both titles but have a lot of respect for the 8 other guys that are on fire for it.

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BigUglyManiac wrote: 8:06pm September 12, 2012

I want to see Tomac on KTM next year. Perfect chemestry for Dungey, and a rabbit for the 'cherman and the frog indoors. While I am not an insider, both Dungey and Tomac have the squeakiest PR out there, and if you want to own 'merica like Bush, you need unilateral power that these horses can generate, albiet with a cheezy smile and a wink.

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RideJBI wrote: 8:07pm September 12, 2012

Another great read. Thanks Matthes!

RideJBI

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BigUglyManiac wrote: 8:10pm September 12, 2012

By power, I mean PR power

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BigUglyManiac wrote: 8:27pm September 12, 2012

Big shout out to you Steve for an extremely well written and entertaining season of motocross journalism. You added an insider's flavor that really increased the dimensions available to the fans, and I really look forward to Wednesday to read your articles. Well done indeed!

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scarycarey1 wrote: 9:17pm September 12, 2012

To say baggett , tomac , barcia could not have beat dungey is whats crazy . especially if you put those 3 guys with him on their 250s . im not saying that they would beat him , just i wouldnt act like its such a dumb comment . lots of variables

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southernboy wrote: 9:56pm September 12, 2012

Shame on you, Matthes! It's nothing for Six-time Stanton to kick a Canadian in the junk. You better bring Rollerball to the races from now on to watch your back.
And another thing, it's very degrading, insulting and humiliating for you to call the Jersey Shore cast white trash. And I don't mean insulting for that bunch of ass-clowns, either, but for those of us who actually ARE white trash. And for that, Steve, I hope Six-time really does kick you in the sack.

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mit12 wrote: 10:21pm September 12, 2012

@scarycarey1,
Have you ever raced a 125 against a 250 or 500? I have and let me tell you that when my lap times were faster on a 125 than the 500 it was way harder to pass the 500 than a 125. Late braking and corner speed creates fast lap times therefore the larger bike messes up your drive and than they power away from you out of the corner.

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dinosaurmedia wrote: 8:14am September 13, 2012

@mit12 - people just dont get it comparing laptimes froma 250 to a 450 is apples to oranges...how many times did JS set fast lap in supercross on a 125 - or Rv on a 250 in the nationals? - they are completely differnt machines Jason Thomas talked about this on the pulp mx show and confirmed what you and I know - I just don't get why people get so caught up with this.
The only true comparison will be when they are all on the same bike - for now we have Wilson and Barcia stepping up - Tomac a possibility for the nationals and all the other guys (CR JS TC RV) all coming back. - that is all we know. predictions are useless. As we have seen, one crash can change a series. Lets just be sensible and wait till the gate drops at A1 - but for you all out there that just think Barcia and Wilson are just going to step in there and mix it up - maybe so but they have never had the grind of 17 supercrosses put before them...all of the other veterans have been down this road before - that might be your difference right there.

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bucky394 wrote: 8:50am September 13, 2012

Steve. I thought you were "up" on what's goin' on in the world of MX. Jeremy Martin dislocated his shoulder recently, and in case you were unaware, that would put a damper on your performance. Wait until next year, when he is 100%, and we shall see the real "Bullfrog". Did you not see the Aonia Pass 450 2012 video of him flat out showing the GOAT the way around the track? Kid has it. Just give him a chance to prove it. Injuries have affected too many riders this year. It happens.

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rickamatuzio wrote: 9:31am September 13, 2012

Why do we have a 450 class then? It is not apples to oranges. At an OUTDOOR NATIONAL a 450 rider should always be faster. Stanton is right..
The AMA should cut displacement back to 350, better yet 2 stroke 250. Make racing fun and exciting again PLEASE. Fitness level is primarily what riders on a bigger bike.
I would Baggett even money at Dungey.

This doesn't even make sense.. The 250 2 stroke class was ALWAYS faster than 125s until Stewart came along. Obviously we have a problem..

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davidl wrote: 10:51am September 13, 2012

RV and JS set faster laptimes while in the 250 class and guess what ? When they moved up to the 450 class they also set the fastest laptimes there also. JS more so in sx, but in mx rc had to step it up quite a bit to beat JS once JS got a 450.
I say the guys that are faster on 250' now than RD on 450 will only get faster and RD will have to step it up or get beat. I believe he can and will get faster and we will find out soon if he can win with the new and old competition all healthy.

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carlsbad wrote: 5:44pm September 13, 2012

Show me a guy turning a fast lap on a 450 and I'll show you a guy getting dived under in every corner of a race.

Point, counterpoint.

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carlsbad wrote: 6:11pm September 13, 2012

I wonder what lap times would be on a 250 2-stroke for top-tier riders?
I wonder if the injuries that we see WAY too much of nowadays would be negated on 2-strokes?
I wonder if MXSports could fill a gate with 250 2-strokes included?

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