Racer X Redux: Different Differences
Tuesday, July 17, 2012 | 1:35 PM
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PrintOn the surface, the Lucas Oil Pro Motocross Championship looks so similar from week to week. Ryan Dungey crushes the 450 comp, and the 250 riders duel through every inch of every moto until Blake Baggett drops the hammer, blows by ‘em and wins. That script was in play again this week at Millville until Baggett threw it away while leading the second 250 moto. Still, it was just a minor scene change, not an earth-shattering event.
Should we really expect the unexpected anymore? Now 40 years into this series, the main players understand the winning formula. Every element is maxed out—the top riders are raised as champions, riding and racing non-stop from an early age. Then once they turn pro, they’re trained to the limit by some of the gnarliest dudes ever known. The riders are machines, and the machines they ride are incredible, too. They are reliable rocket ships, with no element left to guess. Every single variable is measured, understood and managed. Heck, even the tracks are similar, with deep, sandy, watered and prepped courses each week (this weekend, Washougal will present one of the few non sandy/deep tracks, and the riders will complain that it’s too slippery). It’s all homogenized, pasteurized, perfected. Race strategy? Different approaches each week? Ha. Every rider will just claim they need better starts, and will say they ride the full 35 minutes flat out the whole way. The personality, style and individualism have been removed, and everyone sticks to the same script.
It reminds me of a conversation I once had with renowned trainer Jeff Spencer, who told me, “At this level, it’s not about heart. It’s about preparation.” Spencer’s point is that sports have evolved to where you’re finding the limits of the human body, to the point where pure determination can’t add massive gains to your performance. You have to be fully prepared, first, or you have no shot at winning no matter how badly you want it during the moto. And, chances are, someone else on the track also wants it really, really badly. Watch these 250 motos—the desire meter is pegged full-max by Barcia, Baggett and Tomac. If it came down to who wanted it more, they’d all cross the finishline in a deadheat.
The quartet of Roczen, Tomac, Baggett and Barcia are pushing the limits, but is there a strategy involved?
Simon Cudby photo
We are way past the days of some dude coming out of nowhere and winning. Bob Hannah’s dad never wanted him to race motorcycles, so young Bob just hauled through the desert until he was old enough to race on his own. Soon, ass kicking would commence. Today, if you’re not packaged and schooled through the amateur ringer at Loretta’s and such (and, most likely riding and training at a facility full-time, or at least living in warm weather all year) you’re not going to make your mark. Gone are the days of Guy Cooper or Doug Henry skipping the amateur stuff, turning pro, pitting out of a car and winning. Gone are the days of a dude like John Dowd not even racing until age 21, working at a junkyard, figuring this all out and running…wait a minute, Dowd was STILL racing at Millville and running up front?
Beyond that, racing has boiled down to the smallest, subtlest of things, and with so many of the variables taken away, chances are you won’t see anything crazy or anything different or….wait a minute, did Nick Wey’s bike just go flying into Spring Creek!?
Here’s a get well soon to Nick, who will be on the mend for quite awhile after that one. For Nick, this crash totally sucked. But if he hadn’t been hurt, this crash would have been awesome! The crash was not quite as spectacular as last year’s Chadapult, but it was still awesome. Crashes like this just don’t happen in motocross anymore. The sport has evolved enough, become sterile and predictable enough, to where bikes don’t go flying into water. This crash takes you back to when a sport is new, no one knows exactly what to do yet, and anything really can happen. Every track has huge jumps, but all of the riders know how to nail them clean from the first lap of practice until the final lap of the day…wait a minute, the Chadapult? Oh yeah, didn’t Reed launch some 30 feet without his bike at Millville last year?
It all reminds me of this, the greatest monster truck crash of all time.
Oh yeah! King Kong gets sideways, crashes through the giant Union 76 gas station sign, flips over onto two brand-new police cars and then sets them on fire! Crushes and then lights two police cars on fire! Greatest crash ever!
And of course, this crash dates back to like 1989, when monster truck racing had really just gotten started. Surely from that moment on, they haven’t parked police cars so close to the track. Today, with 20-plus years of experience building these trucks and laying out these events, they have to artificially build this stuff back in, by holding a freestyle segment and bringing out old school buses to jump.
Motocross started as a race in an uncontrolled environment. It was called scrambles, and the goal was to get a motorcycle over whatever beat up terrain they could find. It was about reliability and endurance back then, for both man and machine. Now, reliability and endurance is a given for each. It seems like we’re locked into the same old, same old each week. But just when you think the fun is gone, a race like Millville comes along and gives the spark.
Kyle Regal had a bizarre day at Millville, along with a number of other riders.
Simon Cudby photo
Take Wey’s crash, for example. Then, take a crazy 450 second moto where only around 25 of 40 riders were still circulating at the end. Weird stuff was happening everywhere. Tyla Rattray crashed on the first lap, fought back to about 14th, then ran into Mike Brown so hard that he broke his Kawasaki’s front brake disc and ended his day. And Brown didn’t even crash!
Look at the BTOSports.com/BBMX boys. After our buddy Jason Thomas pulled through and scored national points for the first time all year in one moto (17th!), but he derailed a chain in the other. Michael Byrne, carrying an average start of 14.4 heading into the race, nailed both holeshots! Jimmy Albertson, carrying an average qualifying position of 18.9, qualified third. On went the oddities. Kyle Regal, still struggling huge for JGR, was just 20th in qualifying. He picked the very inside gate in moto one and pulled an awesome start, hung up front for a few laps, then dropped back before a huge crash. How huge was his crash? After the Chadapult, he got bounced around in the rollers at the base of the next hill, came off of his bike, and completed the uphill double without his bike. The bike also made it up to the top, without him. If you’re keeping score at home, we had a dude pitch his bike into the creek, and another ghost ride his bike to the top of a hill in the same race. What’s this, the Blackwater 100?
Normally, the 250 Class provides the crazy stuff. Instead, this year it’s merely providing epic battles in nearly every moto. Those battles are far from formulaic, though. Baggett’s come-from-behind charges defy all the racing logic that we have seen for the last 20 years. You just don’t wait until the halfway mark to make things happen! For some reason, Baggett now denies that he does this on purpose, even though he clearly rides much better in the second half of the race (and, he admitted that was his strategy last year). Such charges make it appear like Baggett is in way better shape than everyone else, but it’s not that simple. Yes, he’s strongest in the final laps, but isn’t that partially because he saves something at the beginning of the race? Barcia, Tomac and Roczen are in “go to you blow” mode from the drop of the gate, and by the time Baggett gets to full steam, they don’t have much left for him. This is called pacing, and it’s a term we haven’t heard in motocross circles since the 80s. Riders used to (admit they) pace(d) themselves at certain points in the moto.
Meet the model of consistency, Ryan Dungey.
Simon Cudby photo
Today, everyone still does it, but it’s more subtle and never, ever talked about in public. This year’s superb 250 races have brought pacing to the forefront. While Baggett now denies that he’s waiting, the lap charts say otherwise. And Tomac, after battling Baggett, said, “He seems like the kind of guy that knows when to go, and when to hang back. So when he passed me, I was like, 'Okay, let’s go now!' You hear that? There’s actually a little bit of race craft and strategy there! The riders aren’t just pinning it and sprinting all-out for 35 minutes. Somewhere, deep down, there’s a lot more going on than it appears.
Well, except for the leader in the 450 Class. Dungey has come as close as anyone to eliminating the variables, the guesswork and the unexpected from the game. He’s the same rider every lap, every week and every year. Except for the final lap of the race at Millville, where, to acknowledge the cheers from his home-state fans, The Dunge threw in a few big whips and one handers. It was something uncharacteristic for him, and something a little different. Sometimes, it’s refreshing to know that’s possible.
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Jason...what is Nick Wey's condition. I haven't heard anything except getting checked over.
Good overall article and the lites class is just nuts. These guys are running their
bodies on the rev limiter.
Only difference from now and the 70-thru early 80's is factories could throw everything at it. They would do what ever it took to be on top week to week. Rules are differnt today also , It's a tougher economy, Old days if you won on Sunday, It sold Monday thru following Saturday. Bikes cost to much these days and have driven the mainstream away.......
As far as the weight issue with these riders..........To a point. Maybe ! In 1976 I never heard of Bob Hannah and Marty Smith talk about this it was a bike only, and how trick it could be, they were both to big for the 125cc weight wise and suspenion what was that...... I have some stories I will share at a later date on those days for another time........ Go look at the research or photos of the old days........ You will see.............How soon we forget !
@ LarryWitmer
I heard some kind of Hip or low back issues maybe a hip that poped out or a seperation !!!! Unclear......
Maybe Tomac, Barcia, and Roczen should let Bagget lead right from the start and follow him around, force him to make a mistake.
All I can say is you guys are sick the Chadapult ! come on give the guy a break.
@LarryWitmer - I listened to the PulpMX show last night and they said he had a dislocated hip (which they put back in), and I'm pretty sure they said something about fused vertebrates? This is just from what I remember, so don't quote me on that.
Was at Millville and word was when they had Wey in the ambulance that he had a dislocated hip, this was from someone in his camp that was at the ambulance door. Get well soon.
Insane article! Well done Jason!!!
Keep up the great work on TV too! You are the only guy who I can handle.
Thanks for the updates on Wey -- even if second hand. Hopefully an official update will get posted on Racer X soon. I've been wondering how he was doing after that crash.
"We are way past the days of some dude coming out of nowhere and winning". Not sure about this one Jason. Doesn't Dungey fit this description??
What has been going on with Baggett and his late moto charges this season (and last season) is/are not necessarily a mystery to knowledgeable MX enthusiasts.
Race fans who understand competition know a psyche job when they see one, and they are probably surprised that the same thing appears to have happened twice.
I just want to ask one thing about Dungey, and I do like his riding. But wasn't the top guys hurt the first year Dungey won the SX n MX titles? So what is the difference now he looks great but he is not beating Chad, Ryan V, Trey and now injured James. How do you give him greatness beat the rest of the field. He has won more nationals without the top guys racing him both years that he has won.
@starplaya - Did you watch last year's series? He was a few splashes of gas from the outdoor title. Also, in '10 he was leading SX when RV crashed himself out. He's the real deal. And don't forget, you gotta be in it to win it!
Great write Jason..enjoyed reading all of it !!
Going by just wins
starplaya4life is 100% right, all but 1 or 2 of his SX wins have come without RV, JS or CR on the line. In MX he is much better but still most of his wins have come without RV,JS or CR there. Not his fault but I am sure it bugs the hell out of RD also. It happens in every sport. I just watch the iron man race and they talked a LOT about the woman who won last year, The Girl that one 3 in a row was hurt and did not race so everyone questioned the "new" winner. Well the other girl was back this year and won again so the girl that won last year looks like a weak winner to a lot of people. Poor RD is in the same boat, Won it all in 2010 when everyone was out but then RV took it all away in 2011 with everone there and was doing it again in 2012 so people are going to question him...Its just natural..human nature. All i know is RD is looking Awesome right now and can't wait till 2013 when everyone is back.
Dungey didn't crash the other guys out...they did...it takes NOTHING away from his record , accomplishment or speed....alot of guys may think they could beat him "if only"......"if only" NEVER WON and doesn't matter just like running out of gas doesn't matter,tuff break ..sorry not RV's problem.... He's (RD5) lining up...hes winning and tuff sh*t if the others can't make the party .....not his fault OR PROBLEM....signed an R V fan and a RMZ fan....this ain't horseshoes and Dungey ain't playin....a little credit where credits due. Who DOESN'T make the program is no ones fault but their own.....no *'s in moto..NADA..none.and that #1 and the money will be his (if he wins it)REGARDLESS of what whining fans think about woulda shoulda coulda...thank God....Who's not there isn't what matters WHO IS is what really counts........
OK tonewall answer this question.
.Would RD rather win a title with RV,JS and CR at every round or like he is now??
.If the answer is with them there (and it should be) then that means if there not there it takes a little bit away from it.
Were not going to take anything away from what RD has done, the year he swept the championships, he was a ROOKIE, hell i think a rookie doing that is unheard of besides MC in sx, and then he does it outdoors too. Then he looses his championships barely too RV? big deal, im not gonna talk to much about supercross because even though his chain broke and thats not his fault, rv didnt qualify in jacksonville i do beleive so whatever, he beat him. outdoors comes along and dungey got screwed by his team texas and southwick. but again, rv beat him whatever. Dungey was 13 points behind rv and looked very promising to take it to Rv in supercross, but dungey got hurt whatever, and now all of the big names are hurt, and dungey is gonna get his 2nd outdoor 450 championship and is 4th all time now on the wins list? hell yes. now do i wanna see rv, cr, js and tc back? of course makes for great racing. but damn, i cant stand rv and js fans. no one ever brings up how shitty rv did his first 2 years in the 450 class, and dungeys first race ever in supercross on the 450 he came like 3-4 laps from beating js? anyone who is talking down on RD just cant get over that he is that good. so is all the other big names ive been talking about though. happy to be able to say RD1 again here shortly.
BillC I think the answer lays some where between..
As a racer the goal is always to win the title, regardless of who lines up..All he can do is race who is there, we have all agreed on that.. I am sure Ryan would welcome the competition from any and all the wounded riders, would he win as much probably not, would he still be in the hunt for the title, yes. He has proven he can beat each of them, and is as consistent as any of them staying in the hunt in both series.
My point is, his goal is to win the title, his focus is all about that, he rides his best each round, as if they were there, cause he knows they will be. If Ryan wins the title will it matter to him that RV, CR were not there, I don't think so, he will have given his best effort at every race and accomplished what he sat out to do..earn the title...
In the business world, several companies are working, vying for the same job. If some thing befalls your major competitor and your company goes on to secure the contract would it lessen all the hard work your company put in to get the contract or would you be proud of all the hard work put in and take pride in securing it?
RV never won a title with Bubba there for the whole series. A lesser champ? I think not. This year in SX, all main challengers had injuries, and Dungey had a brand new bike. A lesser champ? I think not. Dungey knows how to win and does it. Those like BillC will never leave it at that. History is full of those who shoulda, coulda, woulda, but there are others called "champions."
sef154 and bd25. well said
I love the Instagram's on the home page.........What a teeezeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!
BillC your comment "All i know is RD is looking Awesome right now and i can't wait till 2013 when everyone is back." basically means I cant wait till RD gets wooped in SX. Honestly i hope the SX season never comes. MX is just to good. Cant beat the great outdoors!
BillC: You won't have to feel so much pity for Dungey soon. Dungey 2011 was not the same as Dungey 2010. He lost Decoster and his technician and was never happy with the bike that year(Still nearly won both championships). This SX (2012) he was on a brand new bike/team and just as he started getting it right(just won his second race in Atlanta), he broke his collar bone. He didn't get the bike right outdoors this year until the second moto of the third race. Now he finally looks like the 2010 Dungey-maybe even a little better at times. He is a year younger than RV. I love the way RV rides like a bat outta hell and that wins him a lot of races. But like Stewart and Canard, it also leads to violent crashes that cause you to miss races or seasons. I hope he keeps learning to back it off some so he can stay healthy and race Dungey more. Here's the catch: If he does that, he will lose more to Dungey. And around we go.....
It is sad that RV, CR, JS, TC cant be there. But when you go up against 39 of the fastest current non-injured National riders......and cruise around the track, with a big #5 on your plate, daydreaming of better competition........
..........well, it just means your pretty frickin' fast !!
But next year, he may be daydreaming of this year ?
@BD25 and sef154.......so very true are your words. It is too bad that "others" cannot understand that reality is as it is.......You play the cards that are dealt to you.
The Dungenator is the most consistent racer in the past 3 years. "Others" should not hold this against him, but, appreciate the physical and mental toughness that it takes to be a consistant winner in this very agressive sport.
check out the video of my first day back after 4 months recovery from shoulder surgery! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_z0k8mSMTE&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Tonewall and Sef, well said. Here we go again with BillC on his RD rampant that his titles mean little. A title is a title. If you hurt yourself and can't race, its your fault. Maybe the others were riding over their head to try to keep pace with RD and hurt themselves. That pretty much the logic to some on this board. With that same logic maybe RV's titles mean little also and deserve asterics also. Let's see...
* on the 450's RV has never beaten RD for a title where RD hasn't missed races due to injury or DNF'd due to a mechanical failure. Points lost from both the thrown chain and the gas issue were enough points to lose the championship. RD got hurt this year only 13 points down (about the same points deficit when RV crashed in 2010) and missed races to allow RV and easy run at the title, with, ahem... everyone else hurt. So, it's almost the same scenario, so RV's title this year in SX not mean that much?
* RV hs never had to race RC outdoors so he is not beating the greatest of all time, so his titles should not be seen as him being the best, because in your words "it must take a little away form it."
I don't believe in this woulda could shoulda crap I'm just making examples becasue everyone can play this "lets make an asterics" game. I still roll my eyes at this logic. RD should just skip the series now because in your mind his title is going to mean very little becasue the other guys from their own fault can't stay healthy. And we all know if that was JS who lost the title becasue his bike broke or had a DNF, you wold be the first one on here jumping up and down saying he got robbed.
When Dungeys 50, sitting around the campfire talking about, "yeah, I never raced the A class much",....nobody will wonder if he was any good. The stuff of "oh, so and so was injured, so Dungeys titles aren't legit"? is B.S. I'm pretty sure I'd have been great, if I just didn't crash so much"....sounds stupid ? donnit?
great article - well done
Sef154 I think your being a little hypocritical!!! I have heard you say Many times that RD was a few splashes of gas away from winning the outdoor title last year. Sounds to me you are down playing what RV did!! Hmmmm??? But yet you get mad at me.
.You seem to forget that RD was only 1 point down with 8 moto's to go so he had the same shot as RV at that point in the season and well we know what happen then.
Then some guy, on a Hodaka sitting around the fire, will think RD's talking smack, and challenge him to a moto,...
Motohead279 you are taking waht i said to the extrem!!. But now that you brought it up i will take the bait. How many SX races has RD won with RV, JS and CR on the line?? 1 or 2?? Now lets look at RV.. How many has he won with everyone there?? 10?? 15?? that tells me he is the better/faster guy. Thats not a bag on RD at all, There so close but RV has an edge in my mind. you can not denie that RD has won most of his races with others out. Does that mean he is no good?? NO..But it means he has a harder time winning when the faster guys are there than the faster guys have winning when everyone is there. Does being faster mean you will always win the title..NO..RD has proven that!!! You guys seem to think I am bagging on RD but all I am doing is breaking down what happens. the guys who wright for racer X have all said it, so has RC and Fro but you don't get mad at them!!! The bottom line is RD is more calculated and cautious and it works sometimes but just like the aggressive style not all the time. Like I said above about the last 8 moto's last year, it was the Aggressive guy who won the title and the other style that did not work.
@billc, yer easier to get mad at is all! ;)
BillC, you're saying I'm hypocritical either because you didn't get what I was saying or you're grasping at straws to try to make your comments not look so cynical. Yes, the Dunge was quite possibly a few splashes of gas from being 2011 outdoor champ. Likewise, you'd have us believe that he's a few crashes (by RV, JS & CR) from not being the 2012 champ. None of it matters. When I look at the record book, I see Grant Langston, Greg Albertyn, Jeff Emig, Jeff Stanton, Donnie Hansen, etc, etc, etc. Does it really matter if they were "the fastest" rider on the track at each and every race? Not for a moment. They are champions! I will say, however, that the above mentioned crashes were all rider error, while Dungey's empty gas tank was something he had no control over (as were the broken chain in SX and the near-DNS at Southwick). But it doesn't matter! A champion is a rider who does everything in his power to achieve the greatest number of points over the course of a season, and gets there! Ryan Dungey = champion. Get over it.
BTW, BillC, you love to talk about "pure speed" and "race wins." Let's look at race wins in 2011 motocross. Reed had four overalls, Dungey had three, and RV secured his fourth only at the last round. Throw those few splashes of gas in Dungey's tank, and he's even with the mighty RV. Take away Reedy's big crash, and your guy in green probably doesn't even tie the Aussie for the most wins! (And he was the only one on a 2012 machine for most of those wins.) But Villo's still the 2011 champ. How about that?
LOL
joemotocross589 i think your right!!!
OK Sef154 if as YOU say "But it doesn't matter!"
.then tell me why do you bring it up time and time again?? At least 3 time this week I have heard you say the excuse line for RD, Gas, Chain ect. if it does not matter why do you bring it up. You did it the other day unprovoked so tell me why??
.seems to me our thinking is closer than you think.
Also in your last post (i just read it again) more excuses.
."RV secured his fourth only at the last round" .... what that race means less than the ones RD won?? PS I believe your wrong about that any way, RV killed them in the first moto at the last race even though he did not need to, then took it easy in moto 2 for a 3rd so I believe RD got the over all with a 2-1.
."And he was the only one on a 2012 machine for most of those wins.) " every team has the same option to do what Kawasaki did and some have in the past so why are you complaining about it??
.How did they stack up for moto wins??
. Also if you want to use excuses how about the fact that RV was sicker than a dog the first few rounds and also had not raced outdoors in 2 years. Once he got a few rounds under his belt he started winning moto's and yes once he got the 2012 no one could stay with him. Like I said before ( that you skipped over) RD was one point behind with 8 moto's to go,so all was even at that point and what happen??
BillC What happened is RV was on a roll and preformed better the last couple rounds and he won a championship...Congrats to RV..
Villopoto is one of the fastest riders on the planet, no denying that, he also seems to be your favorite..which is good I enjoy his style also, fun to watch....If you were going to start a team, RV is who you would contact first, because of his speed and aggressive style wins races......I on the other hand would pass on RV and take RD, because of his speed and consistency wins titles....Both guys amazing and true champions...
We will never know if the others lining up would have changed the out come or not, RV may have run away with it or Reed may have went on a tear or James might have left every one behind or maybe RD would have put the orange bike on the top step just as much! We just don't know as there are to many variables.. So there will never be a definitive answer to the Bench racing Question What if everyone....That's the fun in bench racing as many answers as posters!!!
BD25 wile i agree with most of what you said i have to add there is history that shows RD does not win as much when there all there. So beanch raceing and saying RD would be winning just as much is a streach because there is no history to back it up. know what I am saying?
.I like having discussions wih you because you have a level head!!
I will agree, in the past Dungey did win as much when everyone was on the line, the stiffer the competition the fewer the wins, but he won when he had to, where Poto goes for the w every time, Dung will settle, which distorts the numbers..They are both the top tier of American riders, they approach racing differently but each will be very successful because they work so hard....
@ BillC Dungey beat Villopoto head up at washougal........... Not everyone will be at the same dance at the same time,even though that is the intial plan unless you are a SX only guy......... like uh !! no names !!!!!!
Everyone was there also !! except the obvious JS 7
He sure did 9lives-Mr-Mx , also at a few other races. Again i am not questioning RD at all, Like BD25 said RD is at the top tier of American riders, No question at all. I guess because he does not go for the win's like RV, JS and CR he looks a little weaker. He can't pass Like RV but when he holeshots he is trouble. Thats his biggest weakness for sure. IN SX the last 2 years is there 1 time he passed RV and beat him?? NO but RV has passed and beaten him many times. RD also got hurt this year so you can't say he is riding smarter because it can and does happen to them all. Yes I know if you push the limmit you have a much greater chance but look at RV's knee, He was going very slow just planted it in a bad way. I loved seeing RD and RV go at it last year and was not upset when RD won because my first priorty is seeing good racing and I have nothing agenst RD and was screaming my guts out for him At Southwick last year when he started 3/4 of a lap down...I like the guy believe me!!
In my eyes, as I have said many times, the two are very equal.. I give the advantage to RV in supercross due to his aggressive style, which is why, I give the edge to RD in the outdoors, due to his smoothness..If they raced in a hundred races, RV may win more races with his aggressive style, but Dungey would win his share an the title...One is smooth and steady vs ride the edge fall off the edge..Risk/ reward....I am in awe of the amazing talent they posses! I think RV is great and wish him all the best!!! RD is who I will root for, Ryan will always kinda be the underdog, just the hard working mid-western farm kid like I grew up around..
BillC Yes, nice to discuss these things, that's why I get on here, to read all the different views, learned along time ago, I got a lot to learn....and I always do reading the comments on here..each poster has something different to offer, Mr Mx has a wealth of knowledge on the history of the sport, as do so many others who post on here...sad to see so many getting up set over some one else' s opinion....but it does add variety....Truth be told , we are all super fans, passionate about one sport that we all see differently....some of us wanted to race, while some of us did race..some of us were fast, some of us were slow, some of us never tried, ..so each view point comes from a different reality....take from it what you can and dismiss the rest ...like life, these forums are to be enjoyed, not understood..
2 different riders, two very different styles, both champions.
Sef, actually RD had more overall wins last year than RV did.
AGAIN, BillC, you just don't get what I'm doing! I brought up "excuses" unprovoked? EVERY time the subject of Dungey's accomplishments come up, you chime in with some comment downplaying them because "everyone wasn't there." You just did it again a few comments ago! It's the same argument that so many on here have had about Stewart. "he'd win more if he didn't crash and get hurt!" No $hit! The point is, he DOES crash and get hurt, quite likely because he hangs it out more! Same with RV (to a lesser extent)! You're using that as an excuse to dismiss what Dungey's done! I'm just. Showing you the other side of that argument. One can easily look for reasons to lessen what RV's done! But why? That's my point! Dungey's THE fastest guy right now! RV isn't even on a bike! How could he be fastest? Is it Dungey's fault? Why should it lessen what he's doing? You don't seem capable of grasping this! And I'll put my facts against yours any day. RV won his fourth race at the LAST round last year. My whole point there was that for all your insistence that Dungey is no match for RV, it took him 'tail the last round last year to pull ahead in overall wins. Sounds like old' Dungey held his own to me. And are you seriously going to harp on RV's "dominance" in the final rounds AND play the "RV was sick" card for Dungey and Reed's early dominance. Sounds like more downplaying Dungey. If you were truly following what I've been saying, you'd realize that I'm pointing out all these excuses to say that EVERYBOD
Sorry ... EVERYBODY'S got them, but when all's said and done, a champ is a champ is a champ.
BTW, I'm using an iPad that I'm not used to, and I keep messing up with it! My spelling/punctuation issues would otherwise not be so blatant. Sorry.
The strengths some of these riders posses do not even show up when they are on the track and it takes all of the things they do as a package to get to the top.
One of those strengths is being able to help your team setup a bike so that you can go fast on it. Not all riders are good at that, from what I have seen RD has the ability to help his team do just that. I am also sure that RV had some very helpful information that went into the 2012 Kawis.
In my opinion some of the top riders out there think they can win championships with just raw talent and some hard work. Even though it boils down to the rider winning the races, quite a bit of it has to do with his team and the other guys on the track (or lack of guys on the track).
The people who say well he won because so and so wasn't there are just blowing smoke as far as I am concerned. Even if they were there would they not have some bad luck? If you don't line up on the start gate you have no chance for a win, deal with it, and move on.
Sef... pssssssttt.... I agree 100% with ya bro.... but RD won the last round, and had more overall wins. RD 4, RV 3
Awesome read, couldn't have been said, any better.
motohead279 I tried to tell sef154 that RD won the last race with a 2-1 and RV had a 1-3 but he knows better!!!
.he told me "And I'll put my facts against yours any day."
.Better go "fact" check that one Sef.
Somehow I missed that one. I'd forgotten RV's "back 'er down" second moto. Sue me. Ironically, your correction of my mistake only solidifies my point. Dungey won more overalls than Villopoto! Makes it hard to argue that Dungey's got nothing for him, doesn't it? You go ahead and focus on my one oversight, BillC. Meanwhile, it seems like most on here get the point. Dungey is a champion. No asterisk necessary.
I never gave him an asterisk Sef, just pointed out that 90+% of his wins have come with the others out. RD is a GREAT Champ and GREAT for the sport.
.Not focused on your oversight (we all have them) but found it funny that I broke it down for you and you still came back and told be your facts are better than mine!! LOL Glad we can go back and forth with out it getting ugly!!
.See you at the Wick or the dilla??