Racer X Race Report: St. Louis
Sunday, March 4, 2012 | 2:50 AM
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Ryan Villopoto seemed set to right the wrongs of last week’s Atlanta Supercross at this Saturday night’s St. Louis race. After taking a second last week, the points leader and defending Monster Energy Supercross Champion logged a near-perfect race day at the Edward Jones Dome, logging the fastest laps in both timed qualifying sessions on his Monster Energy Kawasaki, and then winning his heat race. With 59,000 fans on hand, JGR/Toyota Yamaha’s Davi Millsaps grabbed the holeshot in the main event, but Villopoto was soon on him and around him for the lead, and then took off with his fifth win of the 2012 Championship.
It looked close at the end, though, as Red Bull KTM’s Ryan Dungey logged a strong second half of the race to close to within two seconds of Villopoto at the final lap. Dungey, the winner of last week’s Atlanta race, started about fourth and had to work his way past Millsaps, and then Honda Muscle Milk’s Justin Brayton, who had passed Millsaps for second. Dungey finally made the move on Brayton for second on lap 13. The track had gotten rough, with the riders digging all the way down to the concrete floor in spots, so Villopoto played it safe. He also ran into some lapped traffic in spots, allowing Dungey to close. But with Villopoto’s convincing speed all day and his superb win record this year, the outcome was never much in doubt. Dungey took second.
“The track was tough tonight,” said Villopoto. “I tried to ride smart and consistent, paying attention to where (Ryan) Dungey was at. I was able to hold on for another win and my first-ever in St. Louis”
“It was tough to make passes out there,” said Dungey, who was nursing a bit of a shoulder injury coming into the race, but one that didn’t seem to hamper him during the event. “I am happy with second tonight even though I wasn’t able to get to the lead. This track is one of a kind, and I had a blast riding on it.”
Villopoto was fast all day.
Carl Stone photo
He made an early pass on Davi Millsaps to get the lead in the main event.
Carl Stone photo
Ryan Dungey started around fourth and made his way up to second, but there was no catching Villopoto on this night.
Carl Stone photo
Justin Brayton landed on the podium for the first time this season.
Carl Stone photo
Brayton—still riding through the pain of a small fracture in his leg—held on for his first podium of the season with third. He credited actually getting in some riding on Thursday for helping knock the rust off of his riding, as he had not ridden during the week dating back to a big crash three weeks ago in San Diego. GEICO Honda’s Kevin Windham took a solid fourth in his 201st career SX Class start.
JGR/Toyota Yamaha’s James Stewart won the other heat race, but suffered yet another terrible start in the main, and then crashed on the first lap—all stories too familiar to Stewart this year. He picked himself back up to go from 18th to fifth, but now sits over 50 points—the distance of two full races—behind Villopoto in the standings.
Millsaps ended up sixth, ahead of Monster Energy Kawasaki’s Jake Weimer, who won a battle with Yoshimura Suzuki’s Brett Metcalfe. Marvin Musquin had a solid debut on his Red Bull KTM 350 SX-F to finish ninth, with Nick Wey tenth on his Motosport.com/Foremost Insurance/TiLube Kawasaki.
Last week’s surprise leader in Atlanta, Cole Seely, rode well again and ran with the Dungey/Brayton/Windham/Millsaps pack early in the race before crashing on the over/under bridge. Seely was luckily able to downside the big jump with his feet and literally run down to the bottom as he tossed his bike away. He didn’t finish the race, but was uninjured.
Dungey pressed Brayton hard before finally making the move on lap 13.
Carl Stone photo
Windham stayed close to Brayton but ended up just off the podium in fourth.
Carl Stone photo
Stewart started way back and then crashed on the first lap. He climbed back through for fifth.
Carl Stone photo
As much command as Villopoto had of the SX Class, Justin Barcia was basically able to match in the Lites division. The GEICO Powersports Honda rider was not quite the fastest in practice—his teammate Justin Bogle edged him for that honor—but Barcia grabbed another of his seemingly patented holeshots in the main event. His primary challengers, Bogle and Red Bull KTM’s Ken Roczen, were right behind him off the start, but Barcia wasted no time simply checking out from the whole field en route to his third win in three races. Roczen and Bogle battled seemingly the whole way, staying within bike lengths of each other for 14 laps with Roczen just holding onto second. On the last lap, Bogle tried to make something happen and crashed on a double, and then crashed again trying to pick his bike up and get going too quickly. He ended up throwing away a sure podium finish and taking fifth. Rockstar Suzuki’s Blake Wharton took advantage to steal third.
Barcia! Barcia! Barcia!
Carl Stone Photo
Ken Roczen and Justin Bogle were this close through most of the main event.
Carl Stone photo
Blake Wharton put his Suzuki on the podium.
Carl Stone photo
Monster Energy Pro Circuit Kawasaki’s Darryn Durham took fourth ahead of Bogle. Durham’s teammate Blake Baggett was expected to be a contender for this year’s east title, but had another subpar night from a bad start, finishing ninth.
The field heads to the most unique event on the tour, the rugged Daytona Supercross in Florida, next weekend.
SX Class Results
1. R. Villopoto
2. R. Dungey
3. J. Brayton
4. K. Windham
5. J. Stewart
6. D. Millsaps
7. J. Weimer
8. B. Metcalfe
9. M. Musquin
10. N. Wey
11. B. Tickle
12. M. Goerke
13. M. Alessi
14. R. Kiniry
15. J. Sipes
16. K. Chisholm
17. G. Faith
18. J. Albertson
19. C. Seely
20. J. Hansen
Supercross Class Season Standings
1. Ryan Villopoto, Poulsbo, Wash., Kawasaki - 205
2. Ryan Dungey, Belle Plaine, Minn., KTM - 192
3. James Stewart, Haines City, Fla., Yamaha – 152
4. Chad Reed, Dade City, Fla., Honda - 128
5. Kevin Windham, Centreville, Miss., Honda - 123
6. Jake Weimer, Wildomar, Idaho, Kawasaki - 120
7. Justin Brayton, Murrieta, Calif., Honda - 116
8. Brett Metcalfe, Lake Elsinore, Calif., Suzuki - 113
9. Davi Millsaps, Murrieta, Calif., Yamaha - 109
10. Mike Alessi, Hilliard, Fla., Suzuki - 98
The SX podium.
The Lites podium.
Lites
1. J. Barcia
2. K. Roczen
3. B. Wharton
4. D. Durham
5. J. Bogle
6. J. Canada
7. M. Stewart
8. K. Cunningham
9. B. Baggett
10. A. Martin
11. M. Lemoine
12. H. Hewitt
13. C. Thompson
14. A. Catanzaro
15. J. Gibson
16. A. Politello
17. P. Larsen
18. B. Ripple
19. P. Nicoletti
20. T. Bowers
Eastern Regional Supercross Lites Class Season Standings
1. Justin Barcia, Ochlocknee, Ga., Honda - 75
2. Ken Roczen, Murrieta, Calif., KTM - 57
3. Darryn Durham, Butler, Pa, Kawasaki - 56
4. Blake Wharton, Pilot Point, Texas, Honda - 56
5. Justin Bogle, Cushing, Okla., Honda - 43
6. Jake Canada, Sun City, Fla., Honda – 41
7. Blake Baggett, Grand Terrace, Calif., Kawasaki - 40
8. Hunter Hewitt, Pilot Point, Texas, Suzuki – 31
9. Malcolm Stewart, Haines City, Fla., KTM - 29
10. Kyle Cunningham, Aledo, Texas, Yamaha – 28
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Racer X, fix the 'Wharton riding a Honda' bit at the end.
Great race, guys. Thanks.
Is it an optical illusion, or just me? RV1 is blazing fast, and looks that way when watching him ride. RD5 is blazing fast, but he looks and feels slower, why? We can analyze the lap times until we're blue in the face. Yes, RV1 had the single fastest lap. Yes, of the (20) laps in the main, (11) of RV1's were faster than RD5's, almost an even split. Yes, RD5 had the fastest average lap times of the main event. So what is it? Is it that RD5 has that Johnny OMara/Ron Lechien/JMB "smooth" factor that makes it look effortless, therfore slower?
Great racing!! Just need to have The Dunge be a little more aggressive in the first half of the race to make it realy exciting. He has the speed, he just needs to get around the riders ahead of him earlier. It's hard to play catch-up with RV1 out front.
@Jarbuckle, RD5 is fast, he can turn laps as fast as RV1 does, he is just smooth and doesnt seem to attack a track like RV1 does. RV attacks quickly and very aggressive. Dungey seems more relaxed and smooth. But Dungey can flat out haul as$ on a bike.. He can be as fast as anyone. For one thing, he was stuck behind Brayton for a long time, so I think that held back his lap times some, he is faster than Brayton. And by then, RV1 had already built up a pretty good lead, almost 7 seconds, and you cant make up that much time with only 8 or 9 laps left..
JArbuckle, that is exactly what had Stewart and Reed thinking the class was a joke in 2010 when they both were out. They thought if they were out there they would just romp over Dungey, but Stewart especially learned what was up when he tried Unadilla that year. Dungey is very smooth and does not look to be going as fast as he is. And anyone that wants to can say he was the fastest rider on the track last night, even though he didn't win. He went from over 7 seconds back to 2+ seconds and had a lower average lap.
Fastest guy on the track was fastest in practice, had fastest lap in heats and won the main event! He also slowed up by a second a lap from the half way point on! Check out the lap charts.
Hey Jarbuckle & and bd200, RV is not just a little faster then RD he is a lot faster. His fastest lap in the main is 1 full second better then RD's which would equal a 20 second lead if he kept pushing. RV is no fool he said the track was down to cement in places so he slowed plus he eased his way past those hazardous lappers.
RD is a third place guy that got lucky when Reed went out but now he has to push to the max, maybe that is why he bailed practicing during the week.
RD was lucky there were no real hoop sections in this weak track but they will be coming and he will look like he did in San Diego. The fact is JS is faster then him and will beat RD at least once this year. So before posting something you need to check the lap times because the truth lies in the fastest lap which RV only needs to run one lap to secure his win. He proves in Qualifying he can maintain those fast times lap after lap and the only one who can, That is his tuneup and light workout he needs before each win,
Alot was cleared up in St Louis, but some questions still remain.. The Firecracker is the most aggressive rider out there, not with other riders but the track, Villopoto seems to be constantly attacking it. As soon as the gate drops he is wanting to tear the track up, prove his mastery over it, and if that requires alittle gettin sideways to do it, that is ok too.. Dungey, lets the race come to him, does not get in a hurry, especially on the first few laps, while in traffic. The Locomotive takes time to build speed on the track, getting faster as the race wares on. Indoors this can be a problem when trying to make up points, but it will keep you in the points race to the end.. Stewart is still a puzzle to me, he has proven talent, but makes silly mistakes. Running into the back of riders, or silly tip overs, things a rookie does, whether its lack of focus or the bike setup no one knows for sure. What seems odd, he seems ok with it....you dont see the urgentcy..maybe he has accepted the title chase is long shot ..even for a Gambler..
The battle of the "Bionic Blondes" never came to be as Barcia just pulled away, leaving Roczen to deal with his teammate Bogle all thru the race. The rookie made a small mistake on the last lap dropping him to 5th. The Timex Texan took 3rd with a solid ride, Wharton pushed forward all thru the race, the eccentric Watermelon Wharton seems to be gone, replaced by a more mature serious Blake, the only bright spot for Suzuki so far....
Poto controls his own destiny, as long as his agrressive style doesnt bite him...
Dungey will be there to keep him honest to the end....
Stewart is just a big ??????????
Bam Bam is the Top Dog....
KRoc is not quite there ..
Blake Wharton is going to be a contender
Bogle has a bright future....
Sounds like some good racing but with Reed out of the picture I simply fell asleep (ZZZZZZZZZ) and missed both mains. Sorry, but without Chad on the line I'm not sure how many more of these I can stay up for. He just flat out brings it!
Hey B-KR it seems to me Reed was laying it on RD bad this year and had him in third place. RD is a good rider no doubt, but he is not super fast which prevents him from bursting by people to pass like JS and RV can. Lets say RD does catch RV what is he going to do then? If he cannot get by Brayton and the other riders how in the world would he ever pass RV?
Claxton: I'm just an RV guy trying to be objective. I've said plenty of times that RV was the fastest guy when he didn't win and did so objectively, so it's only fair to do now. Even if it is due to RV backing down (which I believe) it takes nothing away from a dominating performance all night long. RV could care less if his average lap is faster as long as he wins. In the past we all asked why Stewart would keep pushing to win by 15 seconds and crash when he is already ahead by 7 seconds. With RV I see sound race management. That is probably the last thing anyone else wants to see since him throwing it away is what they are all counting on.
It has been said a million times but bares repeating.
The lap times are interesting, but are just a small piece. You have to have context around the lap times for them to have any meaning, and even then..
What is impressive about what RV is doing is that he is managing the race. Attacks early gets out front and then keeps an eye on what is going on behind him. Very very smart. He knows that if anyone starts to get close enough he can turn it back p just a notch and maintain, or increase the gap.
So the times do not mean anything.
Also, remember RVs come from last to 3rd and 4th (with the full talented field still in play? JS last to 6th with many talented riders out? That is more telling than lap times.
Contrary to your point @Claxton, the truth does not lie in the fastest single lap time, the truth lies in who crosses the finish line first, which at times is not the rider with the fastest single lap. Otherwise, why even run the race? Let's just hand out the trophy and winners check after qualifying and go home. Last night, RV1 crossed the finish line first, and had the fastest single lap. Good Job!! But his average lap times were slower than RD5's. My observation was, both riders are insanely fast, one just looks way faster than the other. It is a difficult argument to determine the race winner by lap times alone, especially when the fastest riders lap times are often defined by hundredths, and even thousandths of a second. If your argument held water, RV1 was the winner last week in Atlanta. But us with common sense know that didn't happen. Nice try....
Same people, same comments. Can't you come up with something different every week? How bout like that race was a great one .
It is official now...the RV fans are every bit as annoying, one-sided, and nuthugging as are the fans of any other rider out there!! RV is great and deserves full credit for where he sits in the standings right now for sure. One thing for certain that all of you RV fanboys always make sure you get done is some sort of jab at James, just look at your posts (B-KR,as you are clearly the worst)......jokers!! Textbook win RV, well done...great ride by RD too, but i think you have to try and make your move sooner!! Also a great ride by JS, he is still plagued by very poor starts and hittin' the dirt, but still a good ride!! Se what it's like to give a little credit everywhere it is due, you boneheads???
The fans got spoiled last year, it was like in the early 90's when on any given night there were 6, 7 or 8 riders that could win. This year there has been very little on track battles and I really believe the track designers need to come up with something, all the riders can do all the obstacles every lap. RV and JS are the only ones that seem to making agressive passes, RV up front and JS comming up from a crash. Thank God Daytona is next, the results might be the same but at least the track will make for good racing.
I hope JS for once does not win the heat and wins the main. He has not had a lot of luck there in the past, hopefully he stays on 2 wheels.
Getting this outta the way 1st, I root for RD. Villapoto did a great job at time management, what do think the numbers on the Pit Boards are for? Its one thing to catch up to RV but a totally different thing to PASS him.
@ SkyCooper, How do you fall ZZZZZZ to SX ?
Jarbuck
The Truth is RV 13 points up, 5 wins against 2 for RD, beat him in everything last year including the MX of Nations and the Million dollar night in Vegas. Ok so now we have thrown out the lap times and now deal with this reality which is common sense. So there is your TRUTH, now try to live with it or go back to 2010 and reminisce.
It is impossible for the second place rider to have a faster average lap time than the winner. Maybe if you look at lap charts it might seem possible, but mathematically it's not. The average lap time, for anybody, is the total race time divide by 20. The lowest total race time is always held by the winner ( because if it took him longer to finish the race he would be the loser). Therefore it is not possible for Dungey to have a faster average lap than Villipoto.
What a great spot for RV to be in.
He has the speed and conditioning to run the fastest laps of the race for 20 laps, should it be needed.
He also has the smarts/maturity to "manage" the race from up front.
All other riders have to give it 100% to the checkered flag to have a shot at beating RV.
Wow! how nice wold it be to know that you have the field covered and that everyone else will need to put in their best, flawless, rides to have a chance to beat you.
Example? Last week RD put down his fast laps all race long because he knew, KNEW! RV or JS would be coming....and he was!
RV lays down the fast lap to the mid point and drops of by a couple of seconds here and there and does not take chances.
It is staring you right in the face, just need to put the emotion aside to see it.
Nikola Nikola Nikola,
Your logic is correct only if the race is a timed event starting at a fixed time and ending at a fixed time. That is not the case.
The timing does not start until AFTER the completion of lap 1 and people can be spread out by then, crashed, etc.
Come on dude, math does not lie, it is therefore you who needs to change... not the numbers.
When is JS7 switching to the Reed camp?
Villopoto and Dungey are both FAST!!! Lap times seperated by only tenths or hundredths of a second, either one can win, that is why we line them up. Ryan 2 rides more on edge than Ryan 5, which comes from RD104, Roger won his 5 titles with consistancy, not by being the fastest guy every week. It boils down to which way you believe is best to win the championship and both guys are following the path they believe is best for them.
Which is better..
Winning 10 races of 18 and not winning the title
or
Winning 3 races of 18, but winning the title
@Open_Class Just because the don't put the first lap on the time charts does not mean it didn't happen. The first lap is one of the 20 that are included in the final result so it count's toward the average whether they post it or not.
I'll take winning 10 of 18 and not winning the championship. At least that way you know you lined up every week trying to be and beat the best rather than waiting for someone to hand it to you.
Also the race does start at a fixed time, and races never end at a fixed time, even timed events have to wait for someone to cross the finish line.
Nikola - Wouldn't the way they find the average lap be by adding the laps of the rider (50.8 + 51.5 + 50.6 ect..) and then dividing that by 20 therefore finding the mean? Which is the average.
@newguy, this has been a great thread with good conversation back and forth, so why do you have to try and start a chilish fight all of a sudden?? Why be like that. Guys are talking about how smooth Dungey is and how fast RV is, and you have to start with the hate and fighting.. GO AWAY!!
Lap times lap times lap times lap times. Just copy and paste your comments from the last 7 races.
At least Jeff Alessi didn't fill some hard working riders gate in the main this week.
Who really cares about lap times?? A guy builds a 7 seconfd lead, if you look at the chart from EVERY lap, you will see that RV slowed because he had a big cushion.. Dungey will show faster average lap times because he was behind and charging to the front.. Same as last week with RV.. The winner is the fastest, he got to the finish first.. Simple.
@ penquin_bob You are correct, but to do that you would have to add in all 20 laps not just the 19 that are posted. Also if you do that the end result would be the exact same number as you would get by taking a riders total race time and dividing by 20.
Obviously its the RV fans who care about the lap times week in and week out. Like they have something to prove. I find it funny that if he doesn't set the fastest lap time, it doesn't matter. If he sets the fastest lap time on the track but doesn't win, he's still the fastest guy on the track. Just please, pick on side and stick with it.
I see there's not a lot of JS7 talk on here. I'll throw my 2 cents in. He crashed...again. He also put in an awesome ride, threw down the second fastest lap while in traffic. Pretty close to RV's who had a clear track all race. But who cares, I'm sure RV put it on cruise control on lap 6. Right when his lap times tapered off. If JS7's lap times fall late in the race (last three laps) everyone takes shots at him. Saying he's a quitter, he's out of shape, lazy etc. No one wants to give him the benefit of the doubt that he just backed it off like EVERYONE said he should do in the past. I include Reedy in this too. He's a great guy but seems like he has to let his opinion be known on every rider out there. Stewarts not winning races, he's not getting the finishes he wants because of mistakes but I think that he has been improving. He seems to be looking forward to Daytona. Obviously we all know his track record but he said it should be good because the track is longer and you need to be in shape there. Would a man whose out of shape be making statements like that? But as for his improvements,he looks comfortable on the bike once it gets him through the first turn. In his interviews he looks like a hungry racer who just can't seem to catch a break.
Call me a Stewtard, and RV hater, a Dungy lover, Nimrod, whatever you want. I'm just calling it like I see it. I see RV winning the title, but I hope to see big improvements from Stewart. I doubt that he's going to give up on this thing until he's on top again, or close to it.
The clock does not start until after the first lap has been complete. You get the position but no actual lap time from start to the finish line indicator.
Because of this a guy could crash right off the gate and not cross the finish line indicator well behind the leader.
It is at this point you start to get lap times for every lap. So, a faster guy could start 30 seconds back, set a 1 sec faster lap time average and still finish 10 seconds back.
The way to resolve this is to start the clock at the gate drop. The first lap would then be only a partial lap and have a low time, but could then be figured into the average lap time calculation.....and THEN the math will reflect the finish order.
Just sayn'
Once again the technical direction of the show was very bad. They made the classic bad choice on the last lap of the Lites Main of showing Barcia cruise around in first while there was a heated battle for Second.... Also, the consistently show the aftermath of crashes on the first lap while the most exciting and crucial part of the race is going on. First lap-STAY ON THE FRONT OF THE PACK Last Lap- STAY ON THE CLOSE RACE NOT A LEADER WAY OUT FRONT. Other than that, I thought the camera work was excellent and despite some whining, I enjoy the banter.
Chillmatic,
You are incorrect about the RV fans be all about the fast lap crap. Go check old JS threads on the FMOTP . Holy crap those fanatics where something.
Now it is just some clean bench racing and not any agro associated with it.
As for JS7s ride last night. I actually think it was mediocre for him, and compared to what his competition has done this year.
Last to 6 with a depleted field? RV did last to 3rd and last to 4th with a full field.
So independent of lap times, and just looking at results I really do not find his ride that impressive, based on what we have seen from him and specifically RV.
Again, the absence of emotion makes things clearer.
JArbuckle RV slowed way down tord the end so that killed his AVG. RD is just a few tics off RV 's speed but that add's up over the laps.
Umm, you never go faster than you have to. Anybody ever race?
RV slowed down because the track had deteriorated so badly that it was down to nothing. RV said in his post-race interview with Jim Holley that he had to change his lines and it slowed him down. Dungey was catching RV because he riding the track better the more it was worn down.
I know it's hard for RV fans to comprehend that someone could actually catch RV, but it happens. Don't take that as an insult, RV still won and was the best man last night (feel like I have to talk to RV fans like I'm talking to a three year old) so you rest easy. ;)
Wow! By far the worst, most one-lined track this year....It's not very hard to make a track where using the inside of a turn would be just as fast as the outside....
The Racer-X Conversations are almost as entertaining as the race!
One thing I will say to the RV fans; let’s not turn into the ilk of some other fans on these boards. Not saying you’re that bad or anywhere near, just saying to be respectful and show the class that your rider deserves. You don’t see him out there acting arrogant or blaming his bike when he has an off night.
As far as lap times are concerned; they’re a race within the race, interesting, they don’t mean anything by themselves but they do tell a story. Does anyone see a pattern? Don’t just look at the fastest lap; look at the consistency over time. Who lays down blazing fast lap times in a consecutive manner? Who does it consistently, race after race, track after track? Who knows when they need to back-off and stay safe (think Oakland).
Thanks for the entertainment everybody. See ya at the races?
With Poto checked out, the racing was for 2nd,3rd, and 4th. It was good to see Milsaps and Brayton up there. What a bummer for Cole seely, the kid looks so good on that 450. As for lil Stewie, bad luck, dumb luck, or no luck at all. Things are not clicking for him at all. I've got to give it to RV though, he was on a mission.
One more thing, be nice to fred! There was an overdose of tard pills last night! lol
I'll never cease to be amazed that the this guy/that guy back and forth brings out those complaining about others as they do EXACTLY what they are complaining about. There are just a few on here that will bring up how RV fans need to make "excuses" as to him not winning at times when that is exactly what happens when it is their guy (whether Reed, Dungey or Stew) yet those 3 COMBINED haven't won as many as RV has already. Every time RV has won there is a whole bunch of nonsense about if this....if that.....yet he's won 5 out of 9 races. Most RV fans and many non-RV guys that are objective call it like they see it, and they see RV crushing it. When the others have won, they deserved it that night too. Some of us would be calling it like we see it if Dungey was winning 55% of the races, and say he is killing. I can remember in 2010 being called a Dungey nuthugger because I was calling it like I saw it, including when Stewfan came up with all the excuses after Unadilla went down. It never ends. I'm sure there were Jeff Ward fans that didn't see the races the way they ran when RJ was dominating in 1986. I was a Ward fan but had no problem seeing that he was RJ's biotch that year.
Why dont you all make up your minds , as to who is Lil Stewie , Malcom or James , We all know who big James is , Just sayin , And oh Yeah , You guys are all a bunch of crap ... Quilty partys only Reply .. LOL ! Js7 will ride red at the Nationals ,
Open Class is right, RV manages a race (and championship) Attacks early gets out front and then keeps an eye on what is going on behind him. Very very smart, wicks it up if needed. The only threat to his championship IS his agression, but I think he'll manage it too.
JS might win a race here or there but NEVER another title, just lacks the brains, and yes this is a sport that now rewards brains, not just talent. And it won't get better for him cause Barcia is just as smart as RV having figured it out (something James never did)
Dungey is probably smarter than RV and he'll be there to collect the title if RVs aggression bites him (which it easily could). Again, VERY smart. Not sexy, but smart.
Newguy, sorry James fell again and got a horrible start. Or was that a figment of my imagination? I'll let you describe what happened since all I do is take jabs at James. He wasn't even on my mind, but now that you mention it. That wasn't the bike, now was it?
@B-Kr, I see where the thought never crossed your mind! lol
@Preston- guilty party here! Whats a Quilty Party? Also It's lil Stewie and Baby Stew! lol
Popular or not, I will share. There has only been one rider over the last 5 years or so I actively dislike and will not support....unless he figures it out.
I believe in accountability, personal accountability. If you get beat, acknowledge that the guys that beat you. When you beat them, acknowledge them for keeping you honest. It iis the others guys desire and drive, that makes you work that much harder to be better. Competition is a truly symbiotic relationship.
It is also NOT about the individual, but the sport, those that have come before, and those that will come afterward. Trying to make it about “You” truly disrespects the other racers, sport, and sponsors. I cannot respect him or his actions and cannot cheer for him.
There is but one guy right now that behaves this way. The sport will not mourn his absence, and unless he figures it out, I hope that is soon.
This is good entertainment....
Lap times, crap times, who cares. I the fairness of full disclosure, I am from MN and am a big fan of RD5. That being said, I respect the fact that RV1 is the rider to beat. RV1 rode a smart race last night... that's how championships are won. You don't win championships on the ground, just ask JS7.
Every one of these riders will take the championship title over individual race wins, all day long. The championship title is what pays the multi-million dollar bonuses these guys have in their contracts. Enough said....
@NikolaTesla... What do you know about lap times and averages? You probably use AC voltage to run your stopwatch and calculator. Fools all, everyone knows that DC is the way of the future. Just sayin'.
Hey, I'm actually rooting for James right now! Would like to see him get some starts and be up towards the front. I like what Open Class had to say about the laast 5 years or so though. It seems it took this year to back up (in James' mind) that last year wasn't a fluke. I like the Gibbs team and used to like James before he started down the road Open Class just described. (I bet most all of us liked him way back when) This year he seems humbled and humility is a good thing for those that get the large cranium going. It quells the qualities that come with the large cranium.
JA got it right, riders and manufacures want titles, race wins are nice, the title is the ultimate prize...
'Good' night or 'bad', these guys all deserve respect.
If I was Bubbles right now, I would be looking at suicide as another option. The guy has to be pissed and bummed. How is it when things go wrong it doesn't stop. As BK-R has said, most of us liked him (way back when). Then again maybe this is all he has, RV has just elevated the bar beyond Stewies reach. As for being humble this year is an over statement. The guy looks and sounds as if all hope is gone.
On a happier note those melons really looked ripe on one eagerly reporter.
I think James has realized that his days of dominance are in his past and he's comfortable with it now which is good. It's tough being told you are a god to come of your cloud but consistently mortal results are beyond argument. James is just a top five guy and thats all. Stunning but true.
When Bubba went pro I was a huge fan like most all of us where. After all he was a legend on minis. But as soon as he started winning and dancing in front of everyone on the track, I lost all respect. I haven't been much of a fan ever since but I am starting to feel bad for him. I've been a RV fan since watching his first pro race at A1 so he is who I always root for but I also want to see some racing and Dungey is just too boring for me. So I'm hoping Stewart will turn his season around at Daytona and we will see a good race between him and RV. I want RV to go home the champion again after Vegas but I don't care how many times he wins between now and then, I just want to see some good racing for that top spot.
From the dancing, the poor reality show, the arrest and everything in between, I am still a JS7 fan. Every weekend I root for him to win over anyone else but I know its highly unlikely. I think there is hope do to the fact that he still shows the speed needed to win. He and RV are at the top level speed wise, RV just has the championship mindset over Stew.
This might sound bad but, I rather see Stewart crash or over come a bad start and lose rather than see him lead the race and fade knowing that he doesn't have the speed anymore. If he chooses to race outdoors, hopefully that will shape him into a more well rounded racer.
Supercross season has passed the half way point.. What suprises you the most?
Reed out of it.
just how poorly JS is doing. Never thought he would be in it for the title, but did not expect this.
After last years results, I thought James would have his A game on. Maybe not a title, at least in the top 3. I also thought some of the Dark Horses would have reared their heads earlier in the season; Brayton, Candard, and Weimer.
Let me rephrase this, if Canard had not been injured.
Lap times are for qualifing and after that it's just bragging rights. RV has a 13 point lead on RD. So, If RV wins 2 more races and finishes second to RD for the other 6 he will win the championship by 1 point. Although I am a RV fan RD is a close second, they are both great kids that ride clean and work hard.
HOW EXCITING! All this talk about lap times, lap times, lap times, YA HOOOOO. Is that what this season has come to? Can someone please step up to the plate and challenge RV before I dose of into a coma. Yeash!
Last night I was hoping for JS to get a good start and was bummed to see him go down, he did ride well and careful to come back to 5th. I really think we will see him up front and tough soon- hope he is learning what he needs to, but I also feel bad for him- gone are the days when all the riders just let him by because they now know they can run with him and a mental edge has been lost.
I was excited to see Brayton riding better and more aggresive, pluss he got great starts.
Cole sealy continues to impress and I hope he is ok he went down hard toward the end of the race
RD had his typicle great drive to the end, I would like to see him get a mental mindset to hit it harder at the start, I think he is passing better now and feel the track last night was very tough to pass on and very easy to ride wide on. Still did not look good in the whoops before they wore down to nothing. Milsaps proves my point- he held up many faster riders both in his heat and in the main- not really blaming him for anything just saying the track was tough to pass on.
RV was feeling much better this week and it showed- he had the flue before last weeks race.
Was hoping for some heat for Barcia and it didn't come but some of the riders are starting to ride better- Cunningham was decent, DD is going to be real good, Bogle was awesome, and rokzon was a tic behind what I thought he would do. Barcia is ready for the big boys and is really wasting his time playing in the minor league.
I am a Texas man but I havent got Wharton figured out yet - He carries a little of the tough guy attitude and talks tough- he seems to be more consistant and looks like a joke to me with his mighty bush, rides very well- time will tell, hope he does well
One more comment and I think its big, St Louis better mix some more clay in with their dirt or bring in 6 more inches. The track wearing down to the concrete is just another danger to the riders- it got RV and IT in 2010 and was dangerous again last night- I am for everything we can do for our riders safety
Man,I dont know about Bubba.If he had just a little bit of patience,he would be top 3 every single race! If I was him,I would feel pretty dumb about now.Being fast enough to win,but being 50 or so points down at half way?Crazy.That bike looks pretty good under Milsaps.
I think it is all attitude with that guy.He feels he should win,so he isnt even thinking about the basics of riding.He s just worried about being beat,or how much he can beat everybody by.You know,like having to jump a quad last week,or do some other hairball section that nobody else even has to do to win!
Dude,back it down a touch so we can see some killer racing with you,RV,and Dungey.
@czmark.......Weimer did rear his head ealier in the season. A podim(or was it two?) and a couple other strong showings. I was stoked with his racing in early part of 2012
KW rode AWESOME- check out his laptime charts- he will hit the podium this year
RV slowed down because the track had deteriorated so badly that it was down to nothing. RV said in his post-race interview with Jim Holley that he had to change his lines and it slowed him down. Dungey was catching RV because he riding the track better the more it was worn down.
I know it's hard for RV fans to comprehend that someone could actually catch RV, but it happens. Don't take that as an insult, RV still won and was the best man last night (feel like I have to talk to RV fans like I'm talking to a three year old) so you rest easy. ;)
@MXPETE450, you are correct sir, I guess I was thinking more on the lines of building something on that flash of brilliance. Jake is a great kid and I was hoping he would have a little more to show. But we still have a lot of racing left and maybe Jake can find a little more speed and be that Dark Horse who prevails.
J_Sloan. You're starting to sound stupid. Sorry but I gotta say it. Now you're saying RV is 2 seconds a lap slower than Dungey when the track gets rough! Good lord. RV Could've went faster but he didn't need to. That's why he builds big leads early so he can bak it down late!
Pretty sure RV can hold his own in the rough stuff!
For me it's hard to even watch Stewart ride now because I start geting excited about what he's doing on the track but then I realize how many times he goes down for no explainable reason and, well, I just don't like watching somebody who seems to always find a way to disappoint. Still love that little bubba smile that peeks out now and then in interviews, but it's getting as rare as his wins. Really feel bad for the guy.
Ripdown, I bow out of the discussion when you turn to personal insults. RV is the best rider out there at the moment, but his fans are biased to a point of being unreasonable. I am not willing to call you stupid. Have a good day. :)
Said you were starting to SOUND stupid. Big difference! Sorta like saying talking to RV fans is like talking to 3 yr olds! Wait a minute? That's pretty much calling RV fans stupid isn't it?
I cannot believe all this talk about how RD realed in RV because somehow RV could somehow not go as fast as RD in it. Really! You gotta be kidding. Did you or did you not watch the outdoor season last year? Have you not watched RV over the last few years?
RV said is was rough and he switched up lines. He also said he was keeping an eye on RD.
So what do some of you less enlightened, or never raced, people think? The opposite of what is actually going on.
RV picked safer lines, watched RD and managed the race. THAT is all that was happening folks.
I like RD, but RV had it covered from the gate drop.
Now, let it go, move on.
JGR, Yamaha, and Stewart. Listen up.
When Vegas comes around I am going to guess that Stewart wont be in the title hunt so no matter how he finishes the effect will be pretty much the same unless....
JGR, with the permission of Yamaha, builds #7 a 2012 YZ250. I think that would be an excellent PR move. I can say with confidence that his overall finish wouldnt be much different, maybe better. The line for his autograph that day would be longer guarantee
C'mon Yammy, do it for the fans. I promise to go out and purchase a Yamaha product the next day.
sloan, please take this as a kind but real comment, You started the insults by saying RV fans are wrong and hypicritical in their biase toward RV, you then kept it up and got worse by saying you have to talk to RV fans like 3 year olds. Now it is clear to me you have your own biases and its all good man. we all root and look for positives in our favorite riders even when they don't win. We all gripe about things we don't like in the sport and we all talk about things we like- it makes me laugh when some of you guys get your feelings hurt over the silliest things- guess none of us grew up ??
(feel like I have to talk to RV fans like I'm talking to a three year old) so you rest easy. ;) yeah I can see where this is going to open a can of worms and the guy doesn't want to be insulted. He left himself wide open! hmmmmm I'll think on that one.
I have a three year old and I don't think he's stupid. What I meant with that comment is that I have certain proclivities in which I feel that I must explain myself in more certain terms. I meant no insult. I enjoy discussions here and don't want to insult anyone.
J_Sloan sounds like a TOOL, Last week When RV ran down RD twice he said RD was in control but now this week RD was just faster!!! LMFAO!!! It took RD half the race or more to move into 2nd!! RV had a HUGE lead and slowed down... Being Smart and in control. Talk about someone who is biais....J_Slone takes the cake. Also nice how he trys to start crap by saying RV fans need to make excuses ...HELLO HE WON!!
Guys I just remembered what J_Sloan said last week.... RD will win again this week and crush it a daytona (something like that) so he must be cruched himself at this point. But hey at least he did not disapear this time...... Then again maybe that would be better ;-)
Both RD and RV fans are right!!! When their rider was out front, sprint then manage it has been done that way since racing began. Mcgrath was the king of the sprint and manage, that is why the start is so important to every rider. So both fan bases can claim they are right... their rider was racing smart with the help of their team...pit board times ....know one wants to push any harder that needed when in the lead risking a fall.
BillC, you are missing my point. My point is that RV was probably cruising while he was out front. It's obvious he backed it off for two reasons:
1) He had a sizable elad
2) The track was deteriorating.
In the previous week, Dungey was not pushing it either because he was comfortable with his lead, and when RV did get within striking distance, Dungey stepped it up and pulled off his fastest lap of the night, *on the last lap*!
My objections here are that what's good for the goose is good for the gander; you can't have it both ways and just play favorites with your rider. RV was not going to maintain 50:536 aptimes with the track deteriorating the it did. Villopoto changed up his lines, it slowed him down, and Dungey was able to capitalize by riding the dilapidated track faster than RV was riding it.
The problem here with RV fans is that anything that someone says that is not a outright praise of Villopoto is seen as an insult. For example, saying -- based on objective demonstrable facts -- that Dungey caught up to RV in the second half of the race because he was riding the track faster. The RV fans immediately come in with both barrels ablazn' and say (and here is what I am talking about when I say Rv fans make excuses) that RV could have ridden faster but chose not to because he had a big lead and had no need to push it. Well, that may be so, but it's not the entire picture. The flip side of that coin is that Dungey was simply riding that track a bit better in the second half of the race. But far be it from the RV fanboys* to admit that much.
* When I say "RV fans" I mean RV fanboys. Of course not all of his fans are like the majority of the ilk that post here. That is, they are not overly-biased, insulting, and unfair in their analysis of the races and racers.
No shit! RD was riding the dilapidated track faster !! He no choice! He was in second!!!! RV didn't have to ride it faster.....know why???
That's right.....he was in first.
sloan, its so easy to mock other fans and seemingly ignor the fact that you are just like them. You are part of the "ILK" and just as biased for RD especially and even in your last statement. There is nothing wrong with your bias for RD as you are a fan of his. There is nothing wrong with others bias for their favorite riders. Your last post is SO biased toward RD and you still don't want to see it.
Example RV's times were over 3 seconds slower after he established his lead and over 1 second faster than RDs fastest time. In the week before RDs times were consistant throughout the race and his fastest was the last to keep ahead of RV. You fail to even aknowlege that RV had the flue coming into the race and still overcame a bad start and you have failed to admit that RV rode better than RD while he was catching him. Funny how you keep talking about RD riding better the last half of ST louis. You refuse to admit that RV was riding as careful and conservitive as possible and still won the race. RV had the luxury of slowing 3 seconds per lap and RD didn't the week before. I could list many more examples but hopefully you get the point.
Now you mock and get pissed at others for doing what you do in most of your posts.
My point is you are not wrong for only talking up RD's strong points- you should its part of what makes you a RD fan- hell he's a class act and awesome racer. NO ONE ELSE on here is doing anything wrong with pointing out RV strong points and RD's weak points when they are RV fans. DUDE its what fans do and promoters and advertizers. Most of these posts are opoinions and hopes for the ones we want to win.
I know RV could have ridden faster had he needed to because I have seen him do it hundreds of times. We have seen him put in his fastest lap on the last lap. NOBODY on here has said RD was not faster the last half of the race. EVERYBODY knows it was too little too late for both guys on different nights. EVERYBODY (including you) knows that to this point this year RV is better by 13 points.
I am a RV fan. I seriously wish JS would stay up, TC was unhurt, CR was unhurt, and we never knew who would be champ til the last lap at Vegas. I hope RD keeps improving- I hope JS comes on strong because I really am a fan of this sport more than one person.
You seem reasonably intellegent and I am not slaming you but simply reading your posts and posting my opoinoin, another thing is clear -I can't spell worth a shit
davidl well said. I been trying to tell him that for weeks.
davidl Thanks good point!
You spelled shit right
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