450 Words: MXoN
Wednesday, September 28, 2011 | 3:30 PM
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In 2008, Trey Canard won the AMA Lites East Supercross Championship in his rookie year of competition. Good for Trey, but his championship tripped a rule that says Lites SX riders can only defend their title for one year before being forced into the 450 class. Most figured he wasn’t ready to move up so soon.
So the rule ended up being changed before the 2010 season, and riders wouldn't be forced up unless they’ve had three years in the Lites class. But a funny thing happened with Canard a few months later: he ended up racing a 450, anyway, as a replacement for the injured Andrew Short, and placed the big bike on the podium nearly every time he rode it.
Barcia wasted little time getting adjusted to the 450, falling just short of an overall at Pala.
Photo: Simon Cudby
Lately, there seems to be something about putting the Lites riders on the big bikes. This year Honda gave Lucas Oil/Troy Lee Honda’s Cole Seely a shot on the 450 and he did well, delivering a pair of top-ten finishes. Then came Justin Barcia’s absolute revelation on the big bike outdoors, coming up just two laps short of an overall at the Lucas Oil AMA Pro Motocross finale at Pala.
Last weekend at the Monster Energy Motocross of Nations, a bunch of MX2 (250) riders had to bump up to big bikes to make a better fit for their team. And they acquitted themselves well. For Frenchman Gautier Paulin, it’s clearly time to move up, as he won the second moto overall riding his YZ450F. Paulin also won the second moto on a 450 at the 2009 MXoN, and he’s now signed to race the MX1 Championship next year. A big guy, Paulin should be better on the 450 than his 250.
While Paulin is already signed to a 450 deal, Tyla Rattray is working on a similar scenario in the U.S. He rode a 450 at the MXoN and took second overall in the MX1 class behind Ryan Dungey via 5-3 scores. Right behind him came Tommy Searle, who battled Rattray to the wire for the 2008 MX2 Title. Searle went 4-4 for the Brits, enough for third overall in MX1. Tommy, however, will return to the MX2 division for 2012.
Paulin (front) and Herlings (rear) found the adjustment to the big bikes easier than most as they finished 1-2 in the second moto at the 2011 MXoN.
Photo: Ray Archer
Then there’s Dutchman Jeffrey Herlings, second to Ken Roczen in the MX2 Championship. The 16-year-old Herlings moved up to a 350 for the event, and ran up front with Paulin for the entire second moto, eventually taking second by holding off a strong challenge from Ryan Villopoto. That battle may have taken it all out of him, as the kid didn’t have the same performance after the short break for moto three. He took ninth. That was still enough for third overall in the Open class, impressive because Herlings won’t turn 17 until December!
Of course, Ryan Dungey turned in the gold “bumping up” standard at the MXoN in 2009. In his first ever pro motocross race on a 450, he went 3-1 in the MX1 class to lead Team USA to victory. Seems if you want to find a good 450 rider, go grab someone from the 250 class!
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What do you think the main reason is for the immediate success in the 450's?
Barcia was struggling to podium in the 250 class and scored numerous podiums in the 450 division
Les Smith could barely top 20 on the rockstar suzuki 250, yet runs close to the top ten in the premier division.
Is the competition underestimated in the 250 class or do some riders just transition easier to the 450?
Interesting debate
Any way you look at it, it means great racing for the coming years!
I've wondered that for years now. i think the competition in the 250 class is deeper for sure. But i also think it shows how much more important what bike you are on in the 250 class. The Pro Circuit teams speaks for itself. Year in and year out they take somewhat mediocre riders (i use that term loosely) and make them champions. You cannot argue with that logic.
Does anyone know which manufacturer Andrew Short and Mike Alessi will ride for in 2012?
Not knocking Paulin and Herlings at all but this sounds a bit misleading. "eventually taking second by holding off a strong challenge from RV"... Don't forget RV started 26th and made up HUGE time on them both... Yes they beat him fair and square but speed wise there not there they just started way in front of him. 2nd moto RV put a min on them. Either way there are some fast young guys over there and there ALL coming here. The GP's will look pretty sad in a few years.
MXKID98... Sounds like Short will stay at KTM, Mike.. My guess is the MC/Brooks team or team 22.
Dungey's first pro race on a 450 was actually supercross in 2008
BillC: in the second moto Villopoto was 7th or 8th at the end of the first lap and for more than half a moto he was lapping the same (some laps slower) as Herlings and Paulin. Herlings had his transmission stuch in 3rd gear in the last laps, still he managed to hold Villopoto off, with all the many lappers that clearly slowed him down more than Villo: people who saw that moto know that.
I think some riders are just betters suited to a 450. A lot of times it's mainly because they are bigger than most of the 250 guys, but sometimes it's just their style. For Dungey, I think it was both.
Hard to say how this would translate to the national level, but whenever I've seen Alex Martin race locally, I always thought he looked faster on the 450. And he's one of the lightest guys in the 250s. If his team spent the same money on a 450 a 250, he'd probably be popping good starts regularly. What he'd do with them, I'm not sure.
The 450 class, at least at the AMA nationals, is top heavy. The 250 class is way deeper. I'm looking foward to seeing Wilson, Baggett, Tomac, Musquin, Barcia, Roczen, Bogle etc, etc, on and on squaring off next year. If you put these guys on 450s they are likely going to be ahead of everyone besides RV and RD, maybe Reed.
Not so fast BillC!
RV caught Herlings with 3 laps left, and could not pass him.... In fact, RV passed Roczen at 6mins +2 laps left and at 3 mins+ 2 roczen reeled him in and passed him back for third for a lap. RV2 passed him back but Kroc was right there at the end.
And it's not like RV never had a chance..... he was on herlings 4 for about 6mins, and could not make the pass. So speed wise they were the same. Actually, two hundreds of a sec separated their fastest lap in that moto, so um... what?
Just saying, you should watch your choice of words cause you end up eating them like RV ate herling's stone spray for 6 mins.
Yeah yeah I know US won, as so they should of.... but I know you were a little nervous going in to the 3rd!
dakat324 please dont let a muddy 1 line track trick you into belief that any of Euros are anywhere near as fast as RV or RD, seriously!
dakat324 please dont let a muddy 1 line track trick you into belief that any of Euros are anywhere near as fast as RV or RD, seriously!
I know originally the idea of the 250f class was to be a feeder class into the 450 class, but some people just seem to ride the 450 better than the 250. Look at 450 experts like Kyle Regal or Jimmy Albertson. The didn't exactly light the world on fire in the 250 class. Some people make the transfer from 250f to 450f look easy, others never really make do that well. You can look at all the past 250f champions that never won races in the larger class. Or you have riders like Metty/Regal/Alberston/Josh Hill/ who seem to ride the 450 better. They are different machines with their own handling characteristics.
Plus, on a close to stock bike, you can be competitive on a 450. Clearly with the 250 engine power is key, and unless you have a great team, it is hard to make the same power as a pro circuit machine. So with the 450s it equals the playing field more.
Seriously guys??? Moto2 was sloppy and RV was making sure he got good points for the team! Figure he settled for third given the conditions rather than force something and make a mistake. We all saw what RV did in the final moto when he needed the win. Wasn't even close. It's a lot tougher to hang it out when you're expected to win!
I think it's easier to ride a 450 fast. Maybe it's the bike advantage makes a bigger difference in the 250s. There are some local guys who have had better results in the 450 class than the 250 class. A.J. Cat did pretty good on 450s.
That's why I always shake my head when the announcers in outdoors go on and on about the 'premier class', the big boys, etc etc etc, when in fact the 250 class is usually deeper and the racing is usually closer. This year the 450 class was very deep... maybe last year as well... but I think a lot of times the guys in 12th - 15th- even 17th places in 250 outdoors are hauling ass.
Nothing like show your love for "The Absent-Minded Procrasher"! I wonder who that could be, hmmmm!
Tell ya what .....Wilson will be aweinspiring on a 450 when the time comes....the kid was born for one looks like to me , write it down - Joe.
Danny-O: I think Regal is a very fast rider, both indoor and outdoor. I had the chance to see Albertson and he was struggling to be into the top 10 in MX1, even if in Mantova, on a sandy track, he was very fast. We'll see him next year, he's still young.
Dakat324 is completely right.
For Ripdown: Villopoto tried to pass Herlings in any way, same thing with Roczen, who got pushed out of a berm by Villo who was furious in the last laps. It's not correct that he decided to settle in third position, in my opinion he thought he could win the moto since his mechanic clearly showed him on his pitboard that Paulin had slowed down in the last two laps. With this I just wanna say that everyone in that moto was riding 100% focused to get the win, this is my opinion.
The depth is so deep that if some of these career 250 guys would move up you would see guys like Nick Wey get displaced and be forced to retire. I love what Wey brings to the game, but he's a 10-12 place guy. If you took the top 15 guys in 250 and moved them up you would see the racing improve in the 450's big time.
Comes down to who's paying the money these days though.
No mention of Tommy Searle coming from waaaaaaay back in final moto to get his 4th. he passed allot of good, regular 450 riders.
Short, Alessi, Grant, Weimer, and the rest of the 4th-10th place guys are going to have a lot more competition in the coming years for their jobs.
Back in the day the 500 two strokes became too powerful and difficult to ride while the 250 two strokes improved to the point where they were just as effective on the track. This is only a few years away again guys. The AMA and MX sports need to start thinking about changing displacement limits and hopefully putting two strokes back into the equation.
I dont think the bike size matters the top guys can ride anything. This has been shown for many years. Bob the builder says""back in the day" There were some so called 125 sccalistst. Most of the guys could ride any size bike. Most of the guys that I raced against in the 125A/ expert/pro class usually just raced the 125's but when we raced a 250 or 500 we still would do the same in the other classes. I dont think it is unexpexted. The power and speed of the bike is only relative to the talent of the person riding.
@BobTheBuilder... Very good point!
However... You will also have to consider the type of tracks... I believe the tracks in the US, the power difference between a 250 vs 450... Is very visible in the laptimes..
As for the tracks the GP series use... Does not make the 450 THE machine to have...
I say put Malcolm Stewart on a 450 already. That kid is too big for 250's
I think the difference is as simple as the 450 is more forgiving. If you make mistakes on a 250, they are amplified while the 450 allows you to just roll more throttle on. Barcia makes a lot of mistakes and the 450 has forced him to ride more toned down......go slower to go faster, haste makes waste, etc etc etc. Oh and Barcia has gotten ridiculous starts on the 450. Haven't seen him come from a bad start yet, just maintain a good start.