by Davey Coombs
The List: Ten Best Imports
Thursday, February 10, 2011 | 4:55 PM
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Last week we gave you our Top Ten AMA rookies of all-time. This time, The List counts down the ten best foreign imports to the AMA Supercross/Motocross circuit. With a nod to Jeff Ward, who was actually born in Scotland before moving to the states as a small child, here are the best international racers ever imported here, according to our editors.
10. SEBASTIEN TORTELLI (France): This two-time world champion came to America to challenge our very best in both AMA Supercross and Motocross, but like so many other great imports, it was SX that would prove to be the taller task...that, along with Ricky Carmichael outdoors. Had Tortelli been able to start in SX Lites like some of the other imports, he certainly would have had better numbers here.
9. MICKAEL PICHON (France): Although he had almost all of his U.S. success in the 125 SX class, Pichon was incredibly fast outdoors as well, but some tough injuries (broken femur in '97) and a shortened stay with Team Honda sent him back to Europe before he could achieve what he came here to do. He ended up winning a few world titles on the backside of his U.S. tour.
Karsmakers was a true professional when it came to the sport.
Photo: Dick Miller
8. CHRISTOPHE POURCEL (France): Even though he's not racing right now, no one should take CP377 lightly. He won two AMA Supercross Lites titles, though he let two AMA Motocross titles in the 250 Class slip through his hands the last two years. The best is still yet to come from Christophe.
7. DAVID VUILLEMIN (France): The Yamaha-mounted Frenchman won four 125 SX mains, seven 250 mains, and a handful of outdoor nationals, but alas, no AMA titles to make up for the several world titles he no doubt left on the table by moving her at the peak of his career.
6. GREG ALBERTYN (South Africa): Even though stadium motocross proved to be his achilles heel here, often leaving him injured before his could contend fully for outdoor gold, Albertyn was able to finally nail down an AMA Motocross Championship in 1999 to add to his three world titles from Europe, plus that surprise win in the 1999 U.S. Open of Supercross.
JMB was the modern day Pourcel, only better.
Photo: Kinney Jones
5. GRANT LANGSTON (South Africa): Langston won titles in both regions of AMA Supercross Lites, a 250 MX title and a 450 MX title before injuries ended his best days prematurely. His versatility on the track and his popularity off of it speak volumes for his character.
4. PIERRE KARSMAKERS (Holland): Karsmakers was a pioneer, moving to America in 1973 after a successful showing in the Trans-AMA Series. He taught the Americans by example how to race, how to train and how to be a professional. Even though the AMA changed up the rules at one point on him, deleting his name from the national championship standings due to his “non-American” status, he won 25 races and a couple titles, including the 1974 AMA Supercross Series (all four rounds of it).
3. ROGER DeCOSTER (Belgium): Okay, The Man did not move here until his own racing career was over, but he visited here often to race in the Trans-AMA Series, winning that fall tour four different times, with 26 race wins. He even won the Daytona SX in 1974 in the 500 class! If we tacked on what he's done as a team manager, he would be #1 by far.
Reed's numbers speak for themselves.
Photo: Moto Verte
2. JEAN-MICHEL BAYLE (France): In the very short span of three years, JMB won three major titles (all of them in 1991, actually), 16 SX mains, 11 nationals, and a USGP. Not a bad three years!
1. CHAD REED (Australia): The numbers don't lie. Ever since Chad Reed moved here in 2002 after a couple of seasons in Europe, he has been at the sharp end of the pack. He's got two AMA Supercross titles, an AMA Motocross title, and he ranks fourth on the all-time wins list for AMA Supercross, behind only MC, RC and Stewie. And he's still making the podium, even as a privateer this season!
Okay, let us have your take on The List of the Top Ten Foreign Imports to the AMA circuit.
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Whoo hoo for Reed!
Reed has been here through some heavy competition. He deserves #1 import.
Reed only spent 1 year (2001) in Europe in the 250 GP's, finishing 2nd to Pichon and nearly winning the crown with numerous wins before going to USA in 2002 for YOT and winning a 125 SX championship on the new 250 4stroke and finishing 2nd to Bubba outdoors. tut tut DC.
For the record Chad Reed only spent one season (2001) in Europe racing the 250 class. He was racing full time in Australia in 2000.
Good list but why is JMB second? The guy flat out dominated when he came to the states. And JMB raced the best indoors and outdoors. He revolutionized the way the bikes were ridden. JMB beat Hall of Famers. Reed has never beaten Bubba or RC in a championship series.
Good job DC, now for the roasting....Even though I disliked him in his day, JMB was a true phenom and all foreigners are using his time here as the measuring stick so, Franklin is pretty dead-on. Props for going old school w/ Karsmakers, he was a catalyst for improvment by the racers in the U.S. It's too bad Tortelli only got 10th, he was one of maybe two who had GOAT's speed outdoors. Several times he gave RC all he could handle which, is significant.
@ Franklin.
"Reed has never beaten Bubba or RC in a championship series. "
Why was it necessary to mention that? Its the best IMPORTS... Anyway Reed was there week in week out, not crashing out and hurting themselves. And still, I wouldn't mind to be the 3rd fastest guy behind Bubbles and RC, they're machines.
Actually, if it wasnt for the GOAT, look at the wins Reed would have had. He would have had a National title way earlier too. He finished 2nd to RC twice before he went supercross only with Brooks. Not to mention the nsupercross titles he finished 2nd in..
Franklin---. Bubba has never beaten RC in a championship either. So what??
another good top 10 list, the top 3 could go in any order you like IMO.
I imagine longevity pushed Reed ahead of JMB on this list. Karsmakers was a pioneer and raised the bar for the young Americans. (And I had an Electro helmet just like that - but it was because of Marty Smith.) Regardless of the "order," it's fun to look back at the older riders.
good list... i was sure karsmakers would be left off because most people forget the true pioneers...
I aint buying it I like Chad reed but no way no one....De Coster all ther way all those years all those cahmpionships against the VERY best
bd200 you are wrong, JS did beat RC in supercross. I do believe however that CR should be second to JMB, he had all those wins and titles in a much shorter period of time, and he did dominate in SX and MX and not because other riders got hurt..
De Coster- the one racer/manager that I would never dare to question or insult. Seriously, he is unqestionably one of the greastest racers of all time, and on top of that, he's propably the greatest team manager of all time. I bet he could take a local racer and turn him into a title contender. I'm glad to see Karsmakers on the list, it seemed like those years of Supercross had been lost with time.
In my iponion Chad Reeds last SX championship should have gone to KW, most people did not see it this way, but at the muddy Daytona SX he DNFd, and the AMA gave him points, Now if you remove those points, KW is the champion. I don't care if he lapped all the way to sixth or whatever, he left his bike dead in the middle of the track and walked away, he DNF'd never crossed the finish line, he should have gotten noooooooooooooooooo points.
You also forgot Ben Townley, he battled RV the entire MX season, Remove Vullemin in put him in that place.
Ben Townley!!!!!!!!!! He comes back after a couple of years injured and is running top pack in AMA nationals, then takes a win at MXoN. Think about it.
How about the Scottish born Jeff Ward
Jimmy, Bubba NEVER beat RC in a Supercross series, or any series for that matter!
JMB actually had to race against tougher competition than Reed, as the factory teams were much larger in his day. Bradshaw, Stanton, Kiedrowski, LaRocco, Cooper all could not match his speed, and that was one fast group! Those 3 championships (SX, 250cc MX, Open MX) he won in the same year is a feat that will never be duplicated again. If he had more personality, he would have had much greater stardom here.
American motocross owes Pierre Karsmakers a huge booyah for his role in improving our competitiveness vs. the rest of the world. And yes, sef154, those Electro helmets were classic! Do you have the Domino's Pizza Team Honda getup and Scott boots to go with it? LOL
What about Jeff Leisk? One of the first from Down Under to get a factory ride in the USA. Good list.
Fro the record Bob, Chad finished third outdoors in 2002. Brandon J pipped him at the post when Chad popped his shoulder!
Seriously, Erin Normoyle DIDN'T make the list?!
Reed is a tough guy... he's been around challenging the best Americans through the years and still he has something to prove...
I can hear it now Davey, Karsmakers who ? Remember the days of First American ? Some of the guys I ride with give me a blank look and roll their eyes when I mentioned life before Mcgrath ! Thank you Edison Dye, Karsmakers , RD, T Hallman .
JimM
Carsbad
4 of out 10 Frenchman
JEAN-MICHEL BAYLE # 2 ??
I do root for Reed all the time; BUT REALLY?
Im pulling for RV to not be to Stewart what Reed was to Carmichael. Start the TGO already DC !
JimM
CarlsbadCa
My bad 5 out of 10 ten parlez-vous francais ! 6 if you count Lez Chein !
JimM
CarlsbadCa
Rodger DeCoster is #1 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Stewart actually did beat RC in a championship. Not the big one but he won the 2006 World Supercross GP title! But no Stephon Roncada in there? I figured he'd be up there.
If the list had of been put together by Legend Status
No.1 would be Roger DeCoster
But as it is by numbers I think its right,
anyway as I am an Aussie
No.1 is 100% correct Chad Reed ( The new Legend)
The Man should be first. No disrespect to Chad. Tortelli should be further down on the list, I miss watching him race the outdoors.
I am lucky enough to have saw them all race. only stuff I gotta say is DeCoster made the greatest impact on American racing. Karsmakers was incredible I think Reed is rated where he should be but, I have to say JMB was like poetry in motion on a bike. just my opion thanks!
1. DeCoster 2. Bayle 3. Karsmaker 4. Hallman 5. Reed 6. Townley 7. Pourcel 8. Langston 9. Vullimen 10. Tie Albertyn-Tortelli
Screw stats...This is how in my humble opinion these fine gentlemen should be ranked by how the impacted Americam Motocross. Nuff Said.
At Jake-247 and bd200, I think Francisco Bulto's post summed up my feelings on the matter. JMB beat the best and completely dominated the sport. Reed did not beat the best (RC and Bubba), therefore how could he be the best import?
As I said, Francisco, I was a Marty Smith fan, so it was Electro helmet, JT visor, Carrera goggles(!), Hondaline jersey, JT pants and gloves, and HiPoint boots. Those were the days.
Great list! Albertyn was always exciting to watch! I remember a race on t.v. when he crashed; ended up off the track and ran into the fence trying to get back into the race. Rode with heart. Glad he finally got a chamiopship here.
Again, I show my age, I did not have the privledge of watching some of those guys ride but I definetly know who they are. As to my knowledge I could in no way argue with this list. For those who say Vuillemin doesn't belong remember, he would have won the 02 SX series had he not hurt his shoulder in Daytona and had to sit it out! For years I thought he was a Pu**y but recently I did the same thing, Not fun!
Chad Reed also beat Carmichael for a championship, the 2003 World GP :D.
JMB did the most in the least amount of time. He won a national here in 89 on a pro circuit honda while on vacation here..... He won everything and left on top. If he went to another team for 92 and left honda he would have won a bunch more titles. He was very unhappy at honda. The guy was poetry on a bike!!!!
That was for blake237
JMB was awesome and when you look to see who he raced against I think #2 is a pretty good spot. I think you hit it spot on with Reed. I will never forget the San Diego SX in '06 I think when he came from behind and passed RC and lapped the entire field up to 3rd place and even then one more corner he would have lapped the Rock
Yeah Sef154 I was rocking with my Hallman LEATHERS (blue with yellow stripe) with the knee cups of course, Silver Bell Magnum and dont forget the Jofa. Waaaaay back in the day John Gregory (JT) was a pharmacist and he started by selling these cool long socks at his pharmacy. He was one of if not the first to sell nylon pants ! THREE 45 minute motos for the "Experts and 30 minute for the "Juniors" at Carlsbad. Multiple full gates for every class and 6 or 7 mfg. . Took me 5 races to finally finish on of those monsters. Damn I love my CRF 450 !
JimM
CarlsbadCa
Excellent job on the list RX! Karsmakers was a class act...I was fortunate to meet him back in the day..I have to agree, Reed has longevity on his side and is proving that he is not done just yet...IMO Bayle would have dominated for a while longer had he not retired so early in his career...Oh, and Roger D, brings more to this sport than any other single rider has hands down! "The Man" knows MX!
I remember flagging the Daytona SX in the early 70's and saved the race win for Karsmakers. He had fallen in the whoop section (telephone poles covered with dirt) in front of me at the far section of the track. He was pinned under his bike and started yelling at me (in Dutch) to help him! I removed the bike and he got up and won the race. My one second of fame in SX! :)
Hey you lot, of course Reed should be number 1! And for your information "Franklin", Reedy did beat Bubba in a SX season, in 2005 in Bubba's rookie year, where i think bubbas best ride was a 3rd. Reed got a few wins and 2nd in the championship behind RC. And besides, who else has come out in their rookie year in the 250 SX class, right when the goat was in his prime, and beat him straight up six races in a row in the end of the series?? Reed actually won more races than RC that year, but had a slow start. He only lost by six points! Then backed that up with super strong outdoor season in 03, then won the SX title in 04, 2nd outdoors behind the GOAT in 04 MX, 2nd SX 05, Injured 05 MX, 3rd 06 SX, 2nd 07 SX, 1st 08 SX, 2nd 09 SX, 1st 09 MX, and everyone knows he and bubba had shocking 2010's (the year of the dunge). And before moving into the 250's, he had a 125 SX title under his belt with YOT. Now try and tell me, that over his almost 10 year career of beating the best, and remaining at the top the entire time, rarely dropping off that podium,that he is not worthy of number 1! He is better than most of the yanks!
Well Mitch, if you remember Bubba got hurt at round 2 in 05 and actually did win 2 races that year his first ever in Dallas in which ricky raised his arm like they do after a fight. Not to take anything from Reed he is incredible and did beat RC the last 6 rounds strait up in 03 and actually won A1 first race of the year, then didnt do as well until the end!
no fonseca? he killed when he came over here and won over a ton of fans before his unfortunate injury. he is still a fan favorite
I hate to admit it but DC is pretty acurate on this list. It's hard to take the emotion out of it and look at objectivly. There are only a few racers on thta list list that I was a fan of.
mxjoe99.. JMB had a goal.. And that was to win the SX crown... Despite all his talent.. He was also a typical french SOB... Selfish and he did not care about the records. Nevertheless what he achieved his remarkable... IN 89.. On a privateer basis with the help of the Decoster and Procircuit.. He won two nationals.. (1x 250 & 1x500).. which was remarkable back then... He was by the way not on vacation.. he had moved to the USA at the end of 88... But due to contractual obligations with Honda Europe.. He had to ride the 250's... Honda USA never wanted him... But sheer pressure and impossible to neglect his achievements in 89.. They signed him up for a 2 yr contract with an option of a 3rd year.
As for JMB winning the nationals championshp in 91.. That was more thanks to Decoster motivating this french SOB to achieve a unique hat trick...
As for the 92 season.. Bayle was already focusing on the road racing.. He's the kind of person who comes, conquers and leaves... Sucks for the fans as we will not see him ride for long... However, he failed miserably in the road racing scenery.. Even though his die hard fans will disagree.. But let's face it.. He never recorded a win in the 250cc nor the 500cc... Despite having good teams. A shame.. Even though I am no fan of his.. I believe he could have achieved success if he was guided properly... And not leaving it to the french SOB's own way of doing things.. He was too*****y believing he could do the same way as he did for his SX achievement..
But the list seems pretty accurate.. Reed deserves to be #1
Bob, your comment about Reed "finishing 2nd to Pichon and nearly winning the crown with numerous wins before going to USA" is wrong. He won one race (Lierop in deep sand), Pichon won ALL the others.
really?... Fonseca deserves to be on the list for his kindness.. One of the true gentlemen in the sport... But result wise.. He never really made it in the 250 class... Even though he had the team to do so.
His results in the 125.. Should have put him on the top spot in the following class.. But as so many riders who excelled in the 125 class.. 70% seem not to be able to make it... In Fonseca's case.. His devastating injury might have robbed him him of eventually achieving this.. Maybe? So far I remember.. He was outclassed by RC & Reed when he rode the 250 class for Honda....
Jimmy, why did the ama give him the points anyway, I forgot? I would have liked to see the look on windhams face, when he came by, and saw the #22 bike, smoking in the mud.
I had one of those electro helmets too.
long live the jofa.
didierlotsyeng, did you ever see gerrit wolsink race over there?
trick... He was riding at his prime when I was shitting my diapers!! He,he.. The dentist!! Met him once thru my dealer at the time... My old man was giving me a RM125.. For graduating from high school... He explained who he was... Do not remember much.. Was too in awe of me getting my first bike... What I do remember was he rode with the greatest of all time.. DeCoster... And my old man was and still is a fan of DeCoster... Hence he giving me a suzuki.. As a formality.. The dealer took a cap and asked on my behalf to sign it for me.. Keep it... He's a true legend.. Like Karsmakers... (Another person I did know much about at the time.. Was more acquainted with Dave Strijbos and Johan van den Berk.. Those two I did see race... ) Ha,ha... Must have the cap somewhere...
Townley should be in there for sure, he has an east coast lites supercross championship. He took it do Dungey in the outdoors, and won a race at the MXDN this year. I guess you just left him out because of that take out move on Short. Give the guy the respect he deserves.
JEAN-MICHEL BAYLE flat out dominated motocross and Supercross during his short stay on this side of the pond. During his short stay here he pretty much dominated the sport on the same level as RC and JS. The only reason his career was cut short here in the states was because the American fans hated him for making it look so easy spanking our top Americans at the time... many of which are Hall-of-famers. Had JMB stayed here longer there's no toubt that he'd be the GOAT!
to put Reed and Bayle over DeCoster and Karsmakers is a crime!!
All of the racers on this list deserve to be there, But I believe THe MAN needs to be number 1 simply because his pure contribution to the sport since the late 60's both overseas and in the USA. he came over here won races in the Trans AMA and a SX. Won 5 World titles, then came here and has become the MOST Dominant team manager ever IMO. Not to mention all the MXON teams he has managed to victory. As good as JMB was it is hard for me to judge a 3 year run against a lifetime run of DeCoster or even the Multiple 8-9 years of continued success From Chad. JMHO
Karsmakers was doing a little cherry picking when he first got here and then faded and wasn't a factor at all anymore. It's nice that he's on the list, but for nastalgia reasons only. DeCoster would have mopped the place up if he'd rode the nationals, but he didn't. Bayle bailed. Reed is #1.
MadMax111.. He dominated.. No doubt about that! His talent is unique... And yes.. The fans did not like him too much.. But you can not blame them entirely? The European fans gave Kenny Roberts a hard time when he dominated the road racing scene end 70's... Only difference.. People warmed up to him.. Who wouldn't.. He never stayed a cold fish as JMB did. He (JMB) never really made an effort as well to be liked... So only the fans who saw the talent he had.. Appreciated him. I for one am one of them.. And still beieve, he is no doubt one of the greatest talent to have come accross the motorcross scene!
Plus.. look at his career... He was just obsessed to get his goals.. And that's that.. Move on. The guy won everything in france... But really everything.. Won the 125 & 250 GP's world championship.. And then set out to get the SX crown.. He just added both nationals.
I doubt he would have stayed on longer.. Not his nature to do so.. He's the type to "Veni, Vidi, Vici".... (I came, I saw, I conquered).. And move on.
I also think JMB should b #1. He was K-Dub and Bailey like on a bike, and won championships. bd200,, I think he knows that JS has nevr beaten RC for a championship.. I think his point is that Reed has'nt beaten either of them.
jmb - 16 sx wins
cr - 38 wins...
really isn't much to argue about there...JMB was a phenom but didn't last more than 2 yrs...REED has endured...he is #1 without a doubt
duh,,, that just prove how much tougher the cometition was,,thats all !!!! Besides, championships are WAY more important than wins !!! DUH !!!!
I really cant beleive I had to explain that to you ...........
JIMMY, you are WRONG. Stewie never beat RC for a supercross title!!! I dont think the competition was any tougher then than it was when Reed and RC were battling. We had Larocco, Windham , Ferry going then. I just think Red and RC were that good. JMB didnt stay around long enough to me thats all..
JS DID BEAT RC for the world SX title, I KNOW you hate that bd200 but FACTS are FACTS.
What's the big fuss here about RC being beaten by JS.. Let's face it.. Title sanctioned by the AMA... RC won, on points.. And luck... Back in 2006.. Was a wicked season by the way.. But many races.. RC got beaten by JS straight up... During the 06' season.. But at the end.. RC prevailed.. Yoohooo.. Good for the GOAT...
on the world championship.. RC got beaten.. Yoohoo.. Good for JS...
Why don't we throw in the SX of Bercy.. RC never was crowned king o Bercy... Does he care? Doubt that...
We can also debate as to why did RC quit racing too early..
They are both excellent riders... Let's hope RC turns things around in NAscar.. As honnestly.. You guys read or hear what nascar fans say about RC... Hurts as a fan of supercross to hear or read that... Makes you wonder.. IF RC did not make a dumb move.. And tarnishing his legacy as being the GOAT and now being relegated to a nothing in nascar...
I sincerely hope he proves them otherwise... If not, I am submitting a petition to the US goverment to ban that sport...
You should submit it anyways...NASCAR is boring.
It bums me out that Reed is ahead of JMB. JMB was a once in a life time talent, what he did was nothing short of amazing. maybe you guys are to into fatasy sports where all you care about is stats. And he had to deal with Honda too. He was so good they would take his set up and give it to his rival, Stanton. JMB also won a 250 GP championship [under a AMA licence], someything Reed did not accomplish. Then you look at JMB's performances at the MXDN's. JMB is as big as Mcgrath.
World Supercross titles were a joke, BillC. If someone held that lame title over Stewart's head you'd say the same thing.
Archer.. Agree that the world Supercross titles were a joke... It was just a series created by the FIM.. Just to show which governing body in the sport has the most influence.. AMA succombed.. And eventually they merged their efforts.. Hence now it's called AMA-FIM supercross... But during the time there were 2 series.. Riders participating in both could make a lot.. I repeat.. A lot of $$.. So at the end... The guy who won the series championship.. Was a more then happy man...
At the end... One will have to thank the FIM to increase 10x the salaries... Suckes to be a Stanton.. Who had to work his butt off and ride all those exhibition races all over the world.. just to earn a decent salary... Ha,ha... Now a lame rider such as a Milsaps.. Must be laughing his head off with the money he made at Honda... Enough to add a tatoo somewhere on his arm stating.. Stanton is a sucker!!!.. he,he
Didierlotsyeng, are you serious?? RC won the title by luck?? Get real. The guy won 15 titles in 10 years, what else does he have to prove to the fantards anyway. Agree the "world" title means nothing to nobody except the guys who cant face the fact that RC won all titles against Stewie, and everyone else. He is tarnishing his legacy as the GOAT?? How?? He isnt losing in moto, so how?? Who cares if he is succesful in car racing?? I dont.. He is the GOAT in moto, not cars.. And I think when you are as good as RC, you dont win titles on luck, he was just the best, and its insulting for you to say different.
Joke or not, RC raced it. So I guess you guys are saying RC was just riding around the track for the hell of it?? RC never got on a bike without giving it 100% IMO. Poo Poo the title all you want but the bottom line is RC and JS raced every round and RC got beat. Why does that bother some of you so much??
hmmm...hey MX MOFO
JMB - 2 outdoor titles, 1 sx titles - 16 sx wins
REED - 1 outdoor title, 2 sx titles - 38 sx wins
neither won very many nationals...
so how is it that you think JMB is better? I can't believe I have to explain that to you...
now what?
hey BILLC if the world title was a joke, why did it pay 100K to the winner? just curious...i need to find a joke like that to win...
ahhhhh,, thats bpretty simple.. JMB was not here near as long,, and he BEAT EVERYONE... Reed ONLY wins ( not anymore ) when RC and JS are not in it... Pretty simple huh ??? Redd is a paper champion.... Thats a fact !!!
ahhhhh,, thats bpretty simple.. JMB was not here near as long,, and he BEAT EVERYONE... Reed ONLY wins ( not anymore ) when RC and JS are not in it... Pretty simple huh ??? Redd is a paper champion.... Thats a fact !!!
If we are including Trans-ama riders, like decoster, who never raced our nationals or supercrosses, then how about Ake Jonnson? He rode the first monoshock, and had maico forks on it. won 9 trans-ama's in a row in '73. At least an honorable mention.
@mxmofo
if REED is a paper champion...then so is dungey?
are we in agreement?
Regarding DeCoster, without question all-time great BUT, he didn't transplant as a rider therefore, no #1 on this list. Karsmakers may not have had the championships but, he is one of the all-time points accumulators among foreigners. Reed deserves props for his longevity at the top over the (generally speaking) fragile french riders but, 38 wins in 9 years vs 16 in 2 for Bayle is indicitave of Bayle's incredible potential. breaks down as 4.2 per year for Reed vs 8 p.y. for Bayle. That would put him in McGrath territory if he had competed for for that long. Of course this is all hypothetical because Jeff Stanton would have broken him in two had he stayed another year.
True,, but you seem to be forgetting one simple fact,,,, This is only RD's 2nd year in the 450 class,,, so it not quite a fair comparioson. Reed has been in it since 2003 !! Are we in agreement ?
Someone correct me if i am wrong here. I cant find the info. In 2006, weren't the 2 canadien rounds inter-mixed within the other 16 races, not in nov and dec, like they were previously?
And didn't r/c race those 2 rounds, same as stewart? So if stewart won the "meaningless" world gp title, Isn't it just the same series, only longer?
R/c won the shorter version of the series, while stewart won the longer version of it?
does anyone remember, or can find some info?
I think the two canadian rounds were before the 16 ama rounds.. They were both in December.
yeah but was r/c there?
absolutely
absolutely
imho, winning a longer series, is more impressive than winning a shorter series.
The world gp title was always held in low regard, back when heath voss and damon huffman won it, but around 2004, reed, r/c and stewart started doing it, so i dont think is as meaningless as it once was. So is stewarts winning it in '06, just a paper title?.
I dont think so at all.
I think Ronron deserves honorable mention if not a tie for 9 or 10. He has a sx title and he had some great battles with Pastrana [considered one of the best 125 riders] outdoors.
But the list is wrong. JMB is #1. He inovated the sport. He was the 1st to win all three major titles in one season. That is like if Everts caming over here and had a perfect season before RC. JMB was the first to blitz whoops also.
Yes, Heath Voss was a "World SX Champ." Riders went up to Canada then to get the practice so the other riders didn't get a jump on them for the "real" series. The U.S. Open paid $100K, too. So what? Ok, Stewie won one "pseudo title" against RC in ... how many tries? Can you say G.O.A.T.? (Which, btw, makes Reed's efforts comparable to anyone's. He raced the G.O.A.T. AND Bubba. Can you honestly say anyone had better competition than that?
Oops my facts are skewed, if only there was an edit function on here. Huffman won a us open not a world gp.
Again, i dont think it was a psuedo title, if reed and r/c were there for both.
I think its day as a psuedo title are over, now that all the top riders are competing in it.
So, if all of them were there in '06, then stewart won a longer series than r/c.
I wish i could find a place to check my goddamn facts.
bd200... Hey.. I never questioned the GOAT's achievements.. Of course it is impressive what he has achieved.. I believe no one will ever achieve those stats...
Nevertheless... Even the great champions.. Such as RC.. They all say.. Being a champ.. Means hard work.... Ideal enviroment (team, people..etc...) and.. An element of luck...
I do not know where you were in 2006... I followed that particular season and was hoping either RC would win and or JS. Back then I was more in favour for RC as Suzuki seemed my preferred team over Kawa... (Hated Kawa then and still do..).. And hoped at least RC would go after MC's record of # of championships in SX.. (Was kind of pissed hearing all those silly comments about MC being the king of supercross..Blabla) But in 06'... Hell.. Three riders were in contention... One SOB called Reed who in my eyes was not even supposed to be in contention.. But due to the silly point system of the AMA.. Rewarding consistency a lot vs wins... There was no clear favourite the whole season. Hell.. At one point.. Even Reed was leading the standings... Or could of have led... And he only won 2 races that season.. VS RC's 6 and JS's 8....
How i perceive the season.. At the end for most.. The so called "good guy" won... No offense to Stewart... But he was the bad guy (As is always the case for the challenger).. And the ugly.. was no doubt Reed...
Sef154 everytime this comes up you bring up Heath Voss winning it. DO you understand that the top guys did not race it then so it ment less, BUT WHEN JS BEAT RC IT MENT SOMETHING because they both raced all the rounds. Why is that so hard for people to get?? Why is it so hard to say RC got beat?? Try it, I bet ya can do it. you too BD200. Weather you think it ment nothing meant NOTHING to the guy WHO DID RACE IT, I would bet RC would have loved to have won it or he would not have raced it.
As for the laclustre results of RC in Nascar... Of course as a motocross fan his achievements will never be tarnished... But the idiot chose to jump to 4 wheels... That's his life now.. And honnestly.. He's making a fool out of himself... If I believe the Nascar afficionados... And that is reality... Making fun of the GOAT... By other people...Other race fans... I am pissed man...
Didierlotsyeng Reed was only in it because of a DNF by RC and a 17th by JS. He was NOT at the level of JS or RC that year but yes he came cloes to winning it anyway. Reed and RC both said JS was the man that year.
BillC.. Thank you! That is what I suspected... Reed was never any threat.. What i can recall...Besides finishing on the podium a lot... PAying a huge satelite dish was making it worth watching those races...
There u go.. Even RC & Reed said it... Shows I was right.. The good guy won, and was being humble and honnest enough to admit.. "I got darn lucky.. But will take the championship and the $1 million cheque with it..." must have been his thought.. Of course.. RC had better training on how to approach the media and to express himself.. He,he
But in my opinion.. 2006 was one of the best ever season in SX!!
BillC, this is the first time I've ever mentioned Heath Voss in a post - EVER! I might have mentioned his sister, Heather, in the past, who IMO was the best Miss SX. Hittin' the bottle early this weekend? I've never seen anybody throw out more "non-facts" and defend them to the bitter end. Truthfully, you're going to hold “World SX” up as showing that Stewart beat RC? Most people thought having two series running the same races (sans two in Canada - where the Lites races didn't even count) was cheesy. And even then, RC still won AMA. Sounds like a draw at best. What about EVERY other series they competed in? I swear, you write this stuff to “hear yourself talk.”
Your certainly have the top two backwords! Bayle was the man, it's not even close really. I just know what my eyes have seen and that would be all of the riders listed (except for "The Man") on the track at one time or another. Bayle was perfect when I saw him ride the 125, the 250, the 500, and SX. After watching his complete destruction of the field at the 500cc USGP @ Glen Helen, mid 1990's I knew I might have just witnessed the most perfect motocross ride of all time. And I still stand by that assumption
Don't forget, Guy Cooper defeated Bayle for the 125 crown. The Frenchman was a talented guy, but hard to like. (Not the first time that phrase was uttered.) Now DeCoster ... seeing him and the Hurricane banging bars up and down the hills of Unadilla was a sight to see! What about Gerrit Wolsink? He was the King of Carlsbad for a number of years. That alone might earn him a spot here.
Yeah Sef154 , I was gonna mention Wolsink too but this list is for guys that came over and raced at least two years it looks like. Your right Wolsink owned the USGP here which was all the more impressive considering how rock hard the track was. Dudes detup was dialed he just floated at CBad and mastered the crossover move that took the locals years to learn,.
JimM
CarlsbadCa
DYNOHUT... Talent wise.. Yep.. Bayle shud be on #1... ON a motorcross bike.. Saw him ride when he was in motogp (500cc 2 stroke class back then)... For the yamaha marlboro team and the following year for the Modena team... In Assen, NL. Needless to say... He was struggling big times.
LOL Sef154 spin it anyway you want(you are a spinner), FACT is JS won the world title and RC GOT 2ND... Live with it its all you have in your usless life. And "non facts" ... I like that you think of that your self?? I though you said at least 3 times that you would stop reading my post's!! That alone proves what a blow hard you are!!!
Why not Fonseca??
And JMB should be on # 1................for sure!!!
He smoked everybody in every class he rode!!!.........in the same year!!
Didierlotsyeng, In 2006 I was right there watching every single race that I didnt attend in person. And for RC to say Stewie was the man, It just shows how classy RC is. But you would NEVER hear Stewie say something like that. Stewie said RC shouldnt be called the GOAT. He said that in an interview right here on Racer X. And while I wont say anything bad about his speed. I will never root for Stewie until he shows some class.. And to say "Reed was only in it because of a DNF and a 17th by Stewie and RC",, So what, they performed bad at that race and Reed didnt. They all started at the same time, RC went off the track , and Stewie crashed again. You say that like they gave Reed a gift." He was in it only because" Its like saying RC won the title only because Reed got alot of 2nds and 3rds. DUH!!. Those two rode bad at that race is why Reed made up points. They both stunk it up that night in St. Louis, and you make it like the AMA gave Reed a gift. We all know you hate Reed BillC, and you love Stewie(even though you deny it, but defend him till the end). But he NEVER beat the GOAT for a title. And NEVER won a title until RC retired. No different than Reed.
HAHAHA BD200 your a funny guy!!! I hate REED now TOO. WOW where do you get this info?? pull it out of your azz?? Tell me what is wrong with me saying Reed was only in it because of the RC DNF and JS 17th?? I took NOTHING away from Reed but that is the ONLY reason he was close. NEVER said he got a gift just said why he was CLOSE. It was NOT because he was the same speed as RC or JS. Man you are somthing else. You try to make a fight about everything I say. and ONCE AGAIN JS BEAT RC FOR THE WORLD TITLE. Do you know how crazy you sound when you keep saying that he never beat RC. I think you made yourself really believe it now. I know you ahte it when someone tells you that you hate someone so why do you do it to others all the time??
BTW REED won the SX title one year because RC was hurt and you always say being hurt does not matter so I guess some could say Reed Beat RC too right?? Now don't tell me RC did not race one SX that year because I can use your Thats not Reeds fault answer.
BillC, do the internet a favor and stick your fingers in a blender. If Stewart could trade that "World Supercross" title for Ricky's AMA title, do you think he would? In a heartbeat. They didn't even count Daytona in that series. The only thing that's a bigger joke than the "World Supercross" series is you. If someone you don't like, let's say Dungey, had that title over Stewart and Villopoto, you'd be leading the charge to discredit it. As it stands, you're just desperate to try and hold Stewart over Carmichael and you look childish, as usual.
What ever Archer. I NEVER said the world title ment more than the AMA one, all I ever said is They both raced it and JS won it. Why do you also have such a hard time with it?? It does not matter if it was a back yard series if you enter it you entered and live with the resuls and JS won it. You can't dicredit a series that had the top two guy in the WORLD raceing it. Other years it ment way less but that year they both signed up for it so it is what it is.
Also why do you say I dslike RD?? Because I questioned him last year and so far this year have been proven right? I like RD a lot, He is great for the sport but just not as fast as RV or JS so in your mind I hate him... WOW.
They didn't even put Greg Alberyn on the list. They use shoulda woulda coulda for Totelli and then say the numbers don't lie for Reed. I can't figure it out. Albertyn won a 250 mx title for Suzuki breaking a 20 year dry spell. He won that against - Pichon, Tortelli, Emig, the great Kevin Windham, Larocco, Henry. I mean come on. And talk about over coming adversity... he got a injury when was leading the MXDNs and a dear ran out in front of him! He's a great guy to...
BILLC, Daytona didnt ever count in your World title, guess what, do your homework, if it did count, Stewie doesnt win that title. And its the way you said "the only reason Reed was in this hunt was because of some unfortunate event. Like he didnt earn all his points. And we all know you arent a Reed fan. If Reed beat Stewie in the World title, guess what, it would still mean nothing to me.
No BILL, I dont think I sound crazy at all. Because YOU are the only guy who thinks that title means anything at all. Nobody else defends it..
Had Mike Kiedrowski not taken JMB out in 1990, Bayle would have had another title and many more national wins. Chad Reed got at least two titles by being the last man standing. J M beat Stanton, Bradshaw, Johnson and a grip of legit contenders. Based on speed, talent, style and smoothness JMB is the #1 import!
Don't include RJ on that list, megawatt. He had already injured his wrist and was never the same.
Flip-flop first and second. Jean-Michel Bayle dominated both Motocross and Supercross in his short time in the sport more than any foreign rider ever (and possibly any domestic rider ever)!!! You titled this article "Ten best imports" not "ten best foreigners that stuck around long enough to accumulate a lot of podiums and some championships..."
And don't forget that, back then, The trans-ama series, was T H E series in the USA. The euro's were still better than us, and decoster was the MAN (and still is). Wolsink was way better than decoster at the usgp's, and won a bunch of them. If I remember correctly, decoster was damned at carlsbad, the same way ricky was damned at A1. Wolsink won 9 trans-ama's in a row, out of 12, against decoster, who was in the midst of his prime, winning his five world titles. Not to mention, heikki mikkola, adolph weil, ake jonnson, pierre karsmakers, etc., which is a pretty fast group. All, while he maintained a dental practice, on the side! Nuts!
I was researching joel robert, to see if he was still around then, and I found this. If you think hannah was an ‘eccentric’ champion, then you gotta’ read this:
“For the 1970 season, Robert was wooed from CZ by the Japanese manufacturer Suzuki, who was seeking to make inroads into the European dominated sport. He continued his winning streak with Suzuki by capturing the 250cc Grand Prix championship in 1970, 1971 and 1972.[3] His record of 50 Motocross Grand Prix victories stood for more than 30 years until it was broken by fellow Belgian, Stefan Everts in 2004.
Robert is remembered as one of the most naturally talented motocross riders in history. In one of the most physically demanding disciplines in sports, he was notorious for his lack of training as well as his cigarette smoking. He even put his cigarette out on Sylvain Geboers's crossbar once on the start line at a series finale, which Joël ended up winning.[4] It is rumored that in his prime, Robert could pick up the back end of a small car by himself, he was that strong.[5]”
Smoking a cigarette, on the starting line of a GP, then winning the race… I’m pretty sure aldon baker would have something to say about that…
Moto sure has changed a lot……………………………….
"do the internet a favor and stick your fingers in a blender" LOL, but remember, we must play nice on here. he he he he
"They all started at the same time, RC went off the track , and Stewie crashed again. "
But, that's not true. r/c crashed in the first turn, then cased a triple, and wrecked his bike and dnf'd.
stewart crashed, and could not start the 4-stroke, which was common back then, before the days of slip clutches.
But you are right, reed deserves a lot more credit. He was not as good as r/c or stewart, but he was definitley the third best guy, and hounded both of them, a lot.
His sx championship seasons went like this. 2nd 1st 2nd 3rd 2nd 1st 2nd (and the 3rd was with a separated shoulder, incurred mid-season) I cant find the info of how many consecutive starts he had, but it was over 100.
Also, i was wrong to suggest that stewarts 2005 sx season, gave him no race time/experience, because i forgot that he came back, and won 3 events, toward the end. i had my head up my ass, and was thinking that all he did, was to ride practice at phoenix.
And you are absolutely right, i forgot that they dont count the daytona race in the world gp. That reason alone, makes it worth much less. so, i wave the white flag in that debate. (not the 1 lap flag, the surrender flag)
Bayle @ the 500 U.S.G.P. @ G.H. was pure poetry.....I hated it!!!!
sef154, I was at Gatorback the day Danny Storbeck broke Mad Dog's wrist and almost every race RJ ran afterwords. Even at three quarter speed he was tougher than the dudes CR22 had to deal with.
Hey trick, it was ake jonnson who had the 9 trans-ama wins in a row, not wolsink.
Wolsink's the one who had 5 carlsbad usgp wins, that we all watched on wide world of sports.
I was at mid-ohio, for the 1975 trans-ama, and the 125 usgp. even have some old 8mm footage, taken with a 1950's kodak, brownie movie camera. 30 years later, i got it turned into vhs. Now i need to figure out how to get it onto u tube.
there's also footage of smith and hannah, at midland 1976.