Kevin Freaking Windham!!!!!! I called top 5 by the end, I was wrong!!!!!! Great showing KW!!! You are the man!!!!

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oh ya, I pulled a KW and HOLESHOT!!!!

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dungy was on it the second moto. was at the race it was 41 secound lead at the end of the moto.

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Observation 1. None of these guys are even close to beating Ryan Dungey. 450 1st moto was great with a Windham, Dungey, Short, Townley, Grant, Reed freight train. All the fast guys were up front. What would happen? Reed had problems, but Grant was the guy on the move. I think Dungey knew KW would tire, and so he bided his time in 2nd, cause even though Grant moved around KW right after RD, RD found another gear and turned a 4 second lead into a 20 second lead by motos end. The second moto is the reason for my initial statement though. In my opinion, everyone worked so hard in the first moto to try and keep Dungey close that they had nothing in the 2nd. RD started fifth, moved into the lead on the 3rd lap or so, and proceeded to put 41 seconds on the field. Every lap he had 3 more seconds. It was very Carmichael-esque, and to be quite frank, pretty ridiculous.

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Observation 2. This series may not be over just yet. What is wrong with Cristophe Pourcel? With Trey Canards new found confidance, and CP's problems????..... Pourcel had a great 1st moto dicing with Canard to eventually take the moto win. The 2nd moto however, showed a fairly large amount of vulnerability from frenchy IMO (UNLESS he was having bike problems). CP started 12th, and immediately started working his way up. By lap 3, he was in 7th. His charge ended there though as he rode in 7th for a few laps, but then actually started going backwards again, (and this was 3 or 4 laps BEFORE the rain began to fall). Blake Wharton got him, then Tickle, then Daryn Durham, then Searle. Fortunately for Pourcel, Eli Tomac had dropped a larger anchor and was on a 3rd to 11th fade himself, eventually getting passed by Pourcel for 10th. The question for me looms, with Trey Canards new found ability to run at the front both motos, and Cristophe pourcel's (apparent) inability to stay strong enough to go 2 motos hard, Could this become a down to the wire duel by the time Pala hits in a couple months? Trey chipped 11 points off CP's lead, and if that becomes the norm? WELL, you do the math!!!!!!!!!

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Can there be anyone who was not pumped on watching #14 out there?? I doubt it!! That was absolutely incredible to watch. Sure he wore down a little (understandably so) but watching him tear up those first few laps was pure motocross bliss.......unmistakeable style!!!! Not gonna bust on Reed here, but his neck??? Why did he keep looking down at the bike?? I honestly think he has lost his drive for this outdoor series, he's faster and better than he has been lately.

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lewisd, millville was an exact repeat of red bud for cp. In reality though if this continues and canard can catch him it won't count because cp "would've won if not for........" just like last year. Hopefully for cp there will be some more "format" changes so Honda can sign him to first moto-only contract and have the motos he doesn't win thrown out. Maybe he should throw his number plates on wilsons or rattrays bike since they never seem to have mechanical problems, or is it a conspiracy?

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I have been a Windham fan ever since i met him at my local track(we were both 7-8 yrs old.) Between jumping up and down cheering i had to wipe the sweat from my eye(my wife and friends claim they were tears, but anyway.) Great ride Kevin , Dungey, Short, heck everyone who made the gate. Awesome race.

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Also, living in South Mississippi i cant,but almost did, forget my personal hometown heros StarRacing! It seems as if a few of Stars riders are pushing alittle to hard and the comments that Tickles going to "rip" on one of Mitchs bikes,HA! Before the season Mitch couldve had broc but didnt want him. Broc is an incredible talent on any bike, but is lucky to have regained a ride with regan. We lovoe you down here broc! Kyle Gills #521 out of his own pocket(no disrespect to Pro-flow and everyone else helping him) With the right power and SUSPENSION he would be top 15 next week. Id bet my bike on it!

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It's great to have K-Dub back. Way to go, Kevin! Nice job by his erstwhile teammate, Ice Trey, too. Looking forward to seeing the second motos later today. Not sure we can count on Frenchie getting tenths in many motos ... but it does make you wonder. I'm tempted to agree with whatever (gulp!); Reedy better find some source of inspiration, or we may be seeing the beginning of the end for the Aussie. Oh, and, I have to say it ... Dungey rules!

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Questions remain for MXdN selections. Dungey, of course (barring injury), and Canard is solidifying his spot in MX2. As it stands, Shorty does look like the third choice, but if Bubba comes back and is clearly faster.... Would be a bummer for Andrew, who arguably should have been the choice last year over IT9. And then there's K-Dub....

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"sef154"...I'm not sure KW would even be asked to ride for team USA. Based on Millville, I would choose short anyways, and considering he's a full timer, there you go. HOWEVER, if KW gets some conditioning and starts beating primarily Short over the last 4 rounds, well then that changes things.

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lewisd, since you asked: Pourcel had MX injuries (landed on a downed bike/rider off a blind jump, no flags) 3 years ago that left him with with nerve damage in the lower-back and pelvic area. The nerve damage interferes with his digestion, hydration, and sweating (by all accounts). Though he is sometimes able to manage it with meds, he has difficulty regulating body temp and re-hydrating between races. He has had some strong 2nd motos, but it seems he cannot count on the 2nd moto recovery. Seems to be hit or miss. So he wins the 1st moto (6 of 7) because he can and the points are nice. In the 2nd he finds out a few laps in how the meds/hydration went and rides accordingly (won 2 of 7, what he can in the others). Not bad, 8 motos wins, 2 more than last year's champ had for the season. In terms of the points re Pourcel's strategy, Wilson and Rattray were 2nd/3rd in the championship. Wilson gained 1 point on CP, Rattray none. Canard was (I think) 4th in points and is now is 2 and 44 points back. TC is riding great, but would have to have this sort of weekend each week (and CP the same) to win it. But hey, who knows? whatever, 100% agree re KW and Reed. chromob, good luck inside there.

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When are these TV announcers & Journalist going to quit talking about how Dungey has all of this luck on his side. It's called preperation. Other racers are crashing while trying to run Dungey's pace.

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gotta give it up to shorty and regal it was nice to see them on the podium wish we coulda gave em more love but the hometown hero stole the show ha. I can honestly say though i think i was just as happy to see kdub lead them laps!

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Nxt year BT101 will be on the honda factory team and millsaps will be contract-less. Short has being putting his head down due to the fact that he is looking for a team for next year. is going to be bad for 18 and 29 to get an other factory contract in 2011.

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probably a guy that used to race will be looking for a team to... you may remember him. his name is james something i can not remember since he have not reced since the 2stroke era LOL. with the fact that he needs a 10 billion contract for 2 races of supercross and some stupid internet show may not be the best deal for any team. i head he will be in the next BIG BROTHER show.

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People always discount Shorty. Where is he in the points? Second? (And that's after a slow start.) Where was he last year? Second? '09 SX? Third? We can go back further, but hopefully you get the idea. Lewsid1, when I said, "And then there's K-Dub...." in my MXdN musings, I was indeed referring to the anticipation of what's to come as the series progresses and he gets into better "race shape." Still not saying he would be selected, but ... just another piece to the puzzle.

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"Elsinore"....I am fully aware of Pourcel's past injuries and how if affects his health. That is why I said he had "an (apparent) inability to stay strong enough to go 2 motos hard". I applaude the guy for being able to continue racing at this level. BUT, those are the circumstances. So, if Trey Canard begins dominating the O/A's, and continues to push Cristophe Pourcel in the 1st motos, then things could get interesting come Pala. Oh, and I haven't forgotten about Rattray and Wilson, I know Rattray is right there in points, and Wilson is actually still ahead of Trey by 12 points, but based on the way Canard has ridden the last couple nationals, I don't see him around those guys for much longer.

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Just like to say, i am sick of Chad Reed! Over rated! He has not ever that i can remember beat any of the elite straight up. He won his championships when others were hurt. He always complains, has the mental strength of an abused dog. He pulled out after like three min. left in the first moto. Just gave up! should have at least finished and gathered as many points as he could. Valentino Rossi returned today after a compound fracture 6 weeks ago and rode to fourth place. That's an iron man even still after nine motogp championships. Reed had some sort of neck problems! Reed in my opinion wears a skirt! If Bob Hannah were wearing James Stewart's uniform he would have been racing along time ago. Today most are too rich and spoiled. I say "most of them" not all!

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YES!! Reed and Alessi get smoked again, I love it. Dungey is starting to ride like the goat, winning motos by over 20 seconds.

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@ jdawg - Depending on your definition of "elite", Reed has beaten some of them including RC. IMO anyone even trying to qualify for a MX or SX race is elite as he would easily kick the sh** out of any one of us. As for his championships, he beat every one who was on the gate "straight up" for those championships. Its not his fault if none of your elite racers were there.

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DJames30, i respect your opinion! mine is Chad is not one of out tougher riders out there today!

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The hot rumor circulating several sites is that Suzuki hasn't been paying Dungey's bonus money. They just don't have it, apparently. I've been a loyal Suzuki rider for nearly ten years, but they've dropped the ball with late releases for the past couple years. Rockstar/Canidae Suzuki is racing on '09 RM-Z250s. I think Suzuki's race effort could end up like Yamaha's. This is what the four-stroke era has rought. The economy plays a role, for sure, but the costs of buying and maintaining these new four-strokes has backfired on the industry. I bought a 2006 RM-Z450, and I loved it. I liked my 2004 RM250 better, so I sold my four-stroke after about 18 months. If Suzuki took their 2008 RM250 engine and slapped it in their 2010 RM-Z250 chassis, I would buy it in a heartbeat. I buy a new bike every 2-4 years, and as it stands KTM will have my money next year.

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lewisid, thanks for the response and clarification. It made a lot of sense. BTW, have always been high on TC. Very, actually. Assumed from the beginning he would be awesome outdoors, but prev 2 years it just never got rolling. Last year he let CP pressure him into mistakes (HighPoint esp). Now he is doing great and only sad thing is we only get to see him one whole season (fingers crossed) outdoors on a 250. Good kid, too.

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First COX will you please read your articles before putting them online, get the correct facts (but I'll give you 41 sec is more than 30) and don't leave words out. OK got that off my chest LOL. Not to take anything away from RD, he has been riding awesome but Team Suzuki has got to be the most dominant in the 450 class just the the PC team has built a great 250 program. Between Roger D and Goose they have the right formula when you add a great rider to the program. When Reed was on the yellow machine he was doing great. On the Kawi it's just not there. Alessi the same thing. He was on his way to his first 450 championship with a yellow steed under him but now? Like I said I'm not trying to take away from the fact that RD is earning his titles but ever since DeCoster took over and RC and Goose came over their 450 program has been pretty much unbeatable and consistently at the top. Keep it up Dungey and WTG Team Suzuki!

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jdawg50, over a fairly long career only 2 guy's have proven to be faster than Chad Reed. That would be Stewart and RC. Imo thats not too bad! And I would have to say that many of the other guy's out there are considered elite racers. On another note, I think after watching Millville Pourcel may have to hand his self proclaimed nickname over to Ryan Dungey.

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MX117 I hope those are just rumors because RD's definitely deserves those bonuses. Even with the economy the way it is it seems that between Rockstar, Makita, Yoshimira and Suzuki they'd be able to come up with the bonuses especially since compared to salary it's got to be not that much. But here's a new conspiracy theory (I know Billc loves these), maybe the other factory teams are not encouraging their riders to race as hard because they don't want to pay their riders bonuses either and if they let RD collect all the wins without bonus money he'll want to switch teams. I guess that would be another LUCKY thing for Dungey in his quest for the historical rookie year he's well on the way to putting in the books.

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I couldn't tell you how true it is, but I've talked with several people who seem to think there's some truth to it. Suzuki's under contract to pay him, so eventually he'll get his money. Ricky Carmichael had a relatively low salary, with high win and championship bonuses. Suzuki might've made a similar deal with Ryan, maybe not thinking he'd be the top rider this year. Just as the cost of racing increases for the average racer, it increases exponentially for the race teams. How much money has Suzuki made off 2010 bike sales this year? My local dealer just received his first 2010 bike about a month ago. Other manufacturers are already getting their 2011 inventory moving.

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@ jdawg50. Chad Reed raced the second half of the 2006 supercross season and almost the whole 2006 motocross season with a dislocated shoulder. Raced 2007 supercross with a fractured shoulder. He also raced the last 5 races (I think) of the 2008 supercross series with a broken shoulder and won the championship also. He also raced with the same illness last year that Ryan Villopoto sat out with! Reed raced with that illness for the last few supercross races and first few motocross races. What is not tough about that? So then you're telling me that you have raced with these injuries and the same illness before?

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MX117, that is some rumor. Obviously I know nothing about it, but for a large corp. like Suzuki to not budget for the possibility seems a bit off the wall. What next, will they run out of money on the big rig's gas card and not make it to Washougal? If that rumor is true, then Suzuki will be filing Chapter 11 real soon and Dungey probably won't ever get the money. Stranger things have happened I guess, so let's hope that isn't true..... As for blaming the 4-strokes, though? I don't think they are responsible for the economy being in the toilet.

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Whatever...."not gonna bust on Reed here, but his neck???" Ummm, sounds like you are busting. The neck is kind of an important thing what with the spinal cord and all. I have defended Stewart's lengthy absence because of injury even as others question it, because don't know what the inside scoop is. It could be a stiff or pulled muscle, it could be a pinched nerve. For anyone that hasn't experienced a pinched nerve, it is no joke. It sounds stupid, but deal with it and see. It's the worst pain I've experienced. What if he's racing and all of a sudden he gets a twinge in his neck and his arm or leg goes completely numb? That is pretty scary, especially if it happens for no apparent reason. He could have slipped a disc. The point is we don't know. Some only cut a guy slack when we see his leg pointing in the wrong direction. When it's something we can't see some question motives (unless the rider is well liked, of course).

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Like I said, it is just a rumor. Take it for that. Mitch Payton has said he spends ten times more money in engine development now compared to when it was only two-stokes. The professional race teams have been hit by the expense of four-strokes as well. I didn't blame four-strokes for the causing the bad economy, more the opposite. Four-strokes are just far too expensive for alot of people to afford right now. Last year was the first time I've ever made less money than the year before. When the economy goes to crap you don't start charging more for your products. That just creates a vacuum. Less people buy bikes, they charge more to make up the difference, even fewer buy bikes, they charge even more. My local dealer knocks $300-$1000 off MSRP depending on model, but every year it's about the same amount. If the MSRP increases $500 next year my dealer isn't going to knock off $800-$1,500 to make it the same price as last year. The bottom line still increases. It's not that I hate four-strokes, but I think they are terribly overpriced.

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The prices on the bikes are going up so much because the american dollar isn't worth as much. Same with alpinestars, arai, shoei etc.

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I like what MX117 has brought up, and I think there is something to it. It's all gotten way out of hand and way too expensive. The bikes are high tech, and even the track designs have become too "high tech" if you know what I mean. Everyone is starting to talk about how they liked things better the way it used to be. Back when tracks were safer and you could rebuild your own bike. If the manufactures can't sell a bike that we can afford to maintain and the mass public stops buying then the pro race teams will fold and so will pro racing as we know it. Maybe then we could start back up "grass roots".

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Trophy De Nations= Ryan D, Trey Cannard, Kevin Windham.

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Um, Cox, FYI your race report is flawed. Regal passed Hahn then Windham early in the race, then fell, THEN Hahn pulled off, then Regal caught and passed Windham AGAIN, then Regal passed Short for 2nd late in the moto. Go Kyle Regal!!!! A full-on privateer beating the factory guys! I'd like to see factory Honda pick up Kyle Regal next year! This is his 2nd overall podium finish this year as a privateer!

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WHATEVER BKR!! Leave it to you to spend a whole post retaliating to one small thing i said. I truly meant that i wasn't busting on him, if his neck is stiff, then his neck is stiff. You dont know that it is anymore than i know that it isnt. If you at all considered the rest of my comment about Reed you would see that my point is that overall, something has changed in his season. My theory?? Like i have said before ( before the season) He has a kid now and i always wondered what effect that would have on a rider going out and risking it all, im sure it's different for every rider. That coupled with the riding death of his very good friend makes me wonder if he is "thinking about it"!!! At some point i would think that the lines begin to cross between thinking about pushing too hard to achieve and looking at the rest of your life outside of, and after MX/SX. Could it be he is at that crossroads now??? Im sure it happens at some point and he is DEFINITELY not riding as well as we all know he is capable of, and at this level any apprehension at all will make a huge difference in results, no?? i would think that potential conflict of interest, if you will, would be unbelievably difficult to deal with. Im probably way off base,and i dont mean to get all analytical, but i do think about how riders deal with that kind of stuff, cant be easy!! Now look, i have spent a whole post responding to you......so much for that, haha!!

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brad86 its even better cause regal caught and passed hahn then windham went down caught them again went down again then caught them again and went on to get 3rd overall.

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Wow, watching Dub was inspirational to say the least...I'll bet Stewart's adrenalin was pumping watching that!!! Kinda wierd that no one has anything for the Dunge though, he just looks so solid! I can't wait for Stewart to come back and shake things up a bit. Windham's the smoothest rider on the planet...and smartest! Regal's a bull dog! hope he can get consistant...Reed's done, we'll se flashes of brilliance with him, but for the most part, stick a fork in him he's lost the desire.. T Hann needs some luck man, a flat??? I sure hope CP377 gets healthy for his move to the big boy's class as he will most likely have the speed to put it on the box..It's got to be hard finding a job with health issues that hinder your second moto performances..no disrespect intented, i just hope he can get it together...

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Rainman and MX117, I agree with you about the bikes, prices and economy of racing. Put it this way, if people stop buying bikes the manufacturers will fold (or at least stop making MX bikes) let alone the race teams. I think it has been said time and again that racing does not necessarily effect bike sales, but still I see the point. With Mitch Payton and this 10 times number though, you have to factor in what year it was that he was working on 2 strokes. He might be spending 8 times as much now if it was still 2-strokes. I remember in the late 80's as bike prices went up $500-$1,000 a year then, thinking where is this going to stop? Prices stayed the same or close to it for a few years, I guess. Here's one that always got me, why is a 250f priced almost a grand less than a 450f?

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Elsinore" You might be right on the sweating thing i was behind the podium after the 1 250 moto. When Poursel pulled in after the moto he dropped his bike and collapsed they drenched him with cold water for some time and he finally got up. The same thing happened to Grant in the 2 450 moto they even got the Doc. involved looking at him he just looked blank staring into the abyss! It was HOT i was not racing just walking all over and i had to get into the Creek 2 times to cool off! But great week and yes DUNGEY RULES!!!!!!!!!!

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You're absolutely right, BKR. Winning races doesn't sell bikes. Honda hasn't won a championship since Ricky left, and they're still considered the top manufacturer. People typically go by brand loyalty, shootouts or whatever they can get the best deal on. My local dealer knocks the most off of 450s. So 450s and 250Fs basically are being sold at close to the same price . When you get right down to it, the major difference between the bikes is simply bore size and beefier internal components on the bigger motor to handle the horsepower. The accountants know there isn't a major return on funding a professional race team. Mitch Payton does sees more of a return on his racing effort, however. Everyone wants the parts his team uses, but not necessarily for a Kawasaki. I think Yamaha made a smart move by outsourcing their racing program and I think others will follow their example.

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I grew up riding, every weekend, during the week, race on sundays. As i got older and slower i started losing all my loyal sponsors. They never paid me weekly or anything. But they made sure my bikes were always running crisp, new knobbys, top ends, all that. than i rode 2 bikes. so i could beat one up while the other one was getting worked on. Nowadays it freakin breaks my heart because i literally cant afford to go ride for a day. I had a spinal cord injury that took me out of MX competetively, but i still want to play ride but i simply cant... I never thaught the world would come to this. spending 8k on a mx bike is rediculous. ride it around the block and its worth about 4200$. I am trying to sell my 07 450 for an EFI bike. I cant believe how low the offers i have gotten. But when i'm trying to make a deal, to save a couple bucks people are telling me to pisss off. Oh man this economy. Anybody Hiring, Need money to ride

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Once again K-Dub just solidifies his status as the most talented man on a dirt bike. If his fitness was 100% there's a chance he wins that 1st moto.... But that has always been K-Dub in MX, when he's on his game he's as good as anyone. There were days even The GOAT had nothing for K-Dub..... the #14 might have never won a big bike title (thanks a lot Albie) but he will always be one of the best ever.....I have a "K-Dub" "baseball"-hat, and when people ask me (which they always do) "Who is Kevin Windham?" ...I almost always say "he's the 2nd best rider in motocross/supercross history" ....lol... some might not agree but I believe it. Because it always seems that no matter who is winning, K-Dub usually finds himself in 2nd place..... I mean, has anyone finished 2nd more than K-Dub? And it seems always a different rider end up with the title..... Finishing 2nd...once, or twice..... no big deal...But to be there, in the hunt for as long as K-Dub has, for as many years in as many chases, its just incredible.....

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Reed: RE:: --- Anyone think that maybe (just maybe) Reed is not all that "mentally" into this season after the McFarland tragedy? I'm not saying he's "spooked" but he's physically banged up, and he does not want to pucrap and take a chance. He has a baby now, and that changes everything. Their families were very close, it has to be having some impact......

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MX117::::: Winning might not sell bikes to people who already ride, but how many 10 year old kids are looking at Ryan Dungey posters, drooling over that Suzuki? .....Of course winning sells bikes, no question about it..... Obviously brand loyalty will sell many also, but how did people arrive at that loyalty? Some got there by watching their favorite riders....win.....And brand loyalty carries through family generations.... How many people do you know will only buy Ford or Chevy because their parents did? ....Well its the same with MX bikes..... Some kid today might not have seen McGrath win on a Honda, but you can bet his Father did....And Daddy has the checkbook, so Junior is getting that Honda....Daddy might not care that Dungey is winning on a Suzuki..... But for every kid without a brand loyalty bloodline, seeing that "winner" every weekend, is certainly going to influence his brand choice.......

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Kyle Regal ......Okay I've seen enough of this kid........SOMEONE GIVE HIM A FREAKING RIDE!!!! This is ridiculous that Regal is still riding a privateer bike. He has shown some of the best flashes of brilliance we have seen out of a rookie, ever. The kid has determination like you don't see in "average" top 10 guys, this kid has it in him to win races..... If I had a race team I'd be all over this kid RIGHT NOW before someone else snatches him up.....Give this kid the best bike in the world and he will be putting it on the podium......

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The reason I heard REGAL doesn't have a ride is because his family is very difficult to deal with like Alessi. But he's is still very fast ...

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Regal's family is not difficult to deal with. Valli made that crap up because the Regals had a verbal contract with Valli that Valli DID NOT HONOR and so the Regals were at odds with them. Here is a quote from Kyle's stepdad: "He better land a good ride when he turns pro because when he's 18 he's on his own."

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Regal is a stud, as much as I like to watch K-Dub ride, I would love to see Regal on that bike. The kid is a stud on the track. And Ashley had it won if she doesnt go down hard the first moto. that sucked. The WMX is giving us some exciting races. Who were those fools who said they dont care about womens racing. The racing is great.

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ss97. I agree about Reed , he has had alot going on lately. Besides losing a great friend, the birth of his baby also. He just isnt there. But maybe he realizes that racing isnt the most important thing in his life anymore. Who knows.

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Isn't that what i just said???

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MX117, quite honestly, your last post was one of the most ridiculous posts I've read in quite some time. Winning races doesn't sell bikes? Are you crazy? Do you really think the factories would spend millions and millions on race programs if there wasn't a return on investment? How many little kids wanted Suzuki's because that's what they remember RC riding? I know that when I was growing up, Jeremy McGrath sure made me want a Honda. I eventually ended up on Yamahas, when he did, lol. And FYI, Honda is not considered to be the top manufacturer.

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theschneid7 I agree with ya on that one. Does he think the Factorys do this for fun?? LOL

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bd!!!! WHAT??? Ashley had it won?? Don't u mean JP was better prepared or put herself in the right spot or Ashley could not take the pressure or JP knew she would crash?? Man that post kills me!!! When BT went down with half a lap left YOU gave him no credit but then you turn around a say that!!! Ya can tell who some people like very easy. I judge them all the same way

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SHORT AGAIN FADES!!! WTF I am sick of seeing FACTORY guys fade!! If I was running Honda I would give his bike to Regal!! Not good and should NOT be happening!!! Grant too!!! WTF

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Actually "theschneid7" and "BillC", ask anyone in the industry and they'll tell you winning races indeed doesn't translate into bike sales. People with any kind of intelligence know the bikes the pros ride are vastly different than the production models they are based off of. You'd have to be a complete moron just to buy a bike just because someone is winning on a insanely modified version of it. Almost nobody bought 1999-2002 KX125s, even though Pro Circuit was cleaning house on them. Every magazine made it clear that the stocker was slow and handled poorly. When Ricky rode for Suzuki, HALF of every RM-Z450 they sold payed for Ricky's earnings. Also, Honda does sell the most 450s in the U.S., they have for a while. KTM would probably be considered the top bike manufacturer worldwide. My friend/riding buddy has worked at my local dealership for 15 years, and he talks with dealers from all over the country at the dealer shows. In fact, I've seen alot of Kawasakis the past few years. Not because they're winning at the pro level, but because several manufacturers cut contingency money for some of our local races.

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I was back in MN this week so i am a little behind on posting! DUNGEY RULES!!!!!!!!!!

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If you watch the 450 post show i am the one in the blue shirt in the start tower next to Johnny'O! Great guy and a big fan of Johnny'O hannah had a fun conversation with him so friendly and great to talk to. DUNGEY RULES!!!!!!!!!!

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Lewsid 1 tracked me down nice guy and if i was you i would not get on his bad side he's ripped i am glade i was not on his bad side! It's funny how many people read and wont to know who the posters are i must have met at least 10 people that no me as YZSEAN one guy even guessed it was me buy the post-es. DUNGEY RULES!!!!!!!!!!

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Good posts MX117! Schneid and BillC (how surprising), it has been shown time and time again that winning races and championships does not determine bike sales. That's not to say that it doesn't help a manufacturer to race, but RC's domination did not raise RMZ bike sales. Improving the bike did. Racing isn't an investment, it is a form of advertising. It's a business expense not an investment. Similar to Budweiser or McDonald's having commercial after commercial on TV, you think they need those commercials to sell their products? If Bud stops making commercials all loyal Bud drinkers are going to switch to Coors? It's the same difference. How many Toyota Camry's do you think JGR's Nascar team sells by winning? Yet Toyota is fully committed to going racing and spends millions to have JGR and others use Camrys. It's about brand recognition and company pride. Teams can actually make money now with outside sponsorship...as I'm sure JGR is well on their way. That's how it works in NASCAR and the Gibbs are applying it to MX. I would bet Mitch's efforts are pretty much taken care of as well by outside sponsorship (if he isn't pocketing money).....that guy is a genius.

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MX117::: But you are only considering those people who are already into the sport...... If you think that Dungey is not turning people onto Suzuki bikes you're crazy...... Its a matter of simple economics and marketing....... As I said in my last post to you, brand loyalty comes from somewhere. Some people learn it, and some discover it on their own through various means...... A little kid who loves Dungey, is going to want a Suzuki.... Just like a little kid that loves Stewart is going to want a Yamaha..... and those kids like those riders because they WIN ...... Factories know that they are not spending money to steal riders away from what they buy, they are doing it to gain new buyers..... It may not be WIN/SELL like it was 20 years ago, but its still a huge part of the effort.....Honda did not build that loyalty through luck....they did it by winning, and applying that knowledge to make great bikes...... And of course the current economic climate is hurting bikes sales, because fewer people are buying new bikes, just like they are buying less new everything expect for iPhones apparently.......

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And I agree that in a few years time there will be no more "factory" teams, just independent teams with outside sponsorship and factory support. Very much like JGR. JGR's NASCAR effort does not lose money, it makes money hand over fist. As do ALL the NASCAR teams. One look at their race "shops" shows how much $$ they make. Joe Gibbs didn't make all that money coaching football. JGR's business model will be the one that is followed in the future. Factory teams will be bidding not on riders, but on teams to run their bikes. I've got this thought about Stewart in 2011, he stays at L&M but they switch to Hondas as Honda ponies up some cash for them to make the switch. Interesting about Yamaha not fielding a "factory" team anymore is that it seems they have the most bikes out there doing well (in the 450s) by far.

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BKR - How has it been shown that winning does not sell bikes? Do you have a study that proves this theory over the past 10-20 years? It goes against marketing logic to say this, it is economics 101 - we buy what we see most - that is a fact. And if every single magazine cover has a Suzuki on it, it stands to reason that some number of people are going to want that brand based on the psychological marketing attack all by itself....... It may not translate to hard numbers right away, but as I said that has to do with building brand loyalty....... If the kids that will buy a Suzuki are not able to buy a bike right now, it does not matter to Suzuki.... the point is that the WINNING of Dungey sold that kid on his favorite brand....... I'd like to know, how everyone got to where they are with their favorite brand? ....Most guys I know liked a brand, because their favorite rider had at some point WON in it...... Then later as they learned to ride, perhaps another brand became their favorite for one reason or another...... Point is, their initial loyalty either came from a parent, or from watching their favorite guy WIN .....

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Don't forget that racing is also where most R&D is done for future models. I own a race shop and I know for a fact 4 strokes are killing the sport in my area. I can't count the number or riders/families that have quit MX because of the costs associated with maintaining or repairing the modern 4 stroke. I don't understand all the Short bashing. I think he has done extremely well this season. There is only one guy winning the races-Dungey. It's not like several guys are beating Short for the win. I do think Regal does deserve a factory ride-even before Townley. How about we stop talking about Stewart until the guy actually shows up to race. This idea of Stewart riding this year's MXoN is insane. From what I have seen in the past it takes heart and desire to be on the MXoN team. Something JS doesn't seem to have much of. No I'm not a hater. Just a guy that believes JS could have accomplished so much more.

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JD - I think the economy is killing it more than anything else...... if those people really wanted to ride they could still buy a 2-stroke and race "cheap" right? I think if the economy was ripping, it would be a different story.....But the economy is a dribble..... I own a tech company, and I've seen it first hand how my business, and every business around me as tanked...... Its really tough out there to get people to buy and/or fix anything.......

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JDubya I agree with the R&D being a piece the Factories are paying for and R&D along with Marketing are a couple of the programs/divisions that typically receive the lions share of a companies budget especially since the R&D costs can typically be written off or capitalized if the R&D costs turn into actual products. How can anyone argue the Factories are not spending money on the Racing programs to sell bikes in one sentence and then say that they are doing it for Advertising? That's what advertising is all about, to sell the product. Race results may not always translate in to sales but it does affect them, to what degree I'm sure the industry has paid millions to determine the impact and it must have some impact or they would not invest/spend on the programs. These are Multi-Billion dollar corporations that live by the bottom line and all decisions and spending have a cost/benefit analysis. There has to be a return on the marketing or else the marketing strategy is changed. They aren't targeting the market of those that truly understand the specifics of a Factory Race machine, there targeting the market that buys the most product and I would think it's not the hardcore MXers but the recreational riders. They're making their money not on Race bikes but on the other off road and street models.

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I am not sure if long time rider would change brands becoues of who win's the championship. But the new riders out there could be swayed i have see it many times. From Hannah on Yamaha to Johnson on Honda's and so on and so on! I have races all 4 major brands as well as KTM and Can-am some times just got a good deal or sometimes got them free but even thou Dungey is my favorite rider when i buy a new bike it's a Yamaha my first bike was a Yamaha and i just feel better on them! DUNGEY RULES!!!!!!!!!!

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I didn't say they aren't racing to sell bikes. What I and MX117 said are that winning does not translate into sales. RC's winning didn't improve RMZ sales. YZ450 sales were probably through the roof this year based on what they did to the bike..... not what James Stewart did or didn't do on his modified version of it. KTM is about to sell piles of 350s.....PILES of them. Is that based on what Alessi is doing on it? Hell no! In fact he is making it look like crap! It will STILL sell like hotcakes. If anything was based on racing results KTM would not sell any of them as Alessi has gone from a race winner to mid-pack on it, incapable of holeshots. But it isn't the bike. Many titles have been won on bikes that magazines told the readers to stay away from, because they really aren't the same bikes, especially back when we had works bikes. That's the point, it wasn't the bike when RC was winning it wasn't the bike when McGrath was winning. I don't have any statistics or studies in front of me nor am I going to do any research on this to prove it to anyone. If you don't want to believe it, who cares? MXA did a story on this once that I know of with all sorts of stats and figures showing that RC's move from Kawasaki to Honda to Suzuki did not change the sales of any of them, good or bad. The figures are available, just look them up.

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No doubt the bad economy doesn't help matters. From what I have seen everybody thinks they NEED a 4 stroke to be competitive. Newbies used to buy a used 2 stroke for $1500.00--throw in a top end themselves for $120.00 and fall in love with the sport. Not anymore. Now the new blood buys used 4 strokes and once they find out they needed 2 grand to freshen up their motors they quit. Used 4 strokes are nothing but a time bomb and money pit.

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I'm sure there are a few people who are swayed by what the current champ is riding, but it's not an appreciative amount. I don't think Suzuki sales are going to skyrocket because of Dungey winning; they didn't when Reed or Carmichael won on Suzukis. There may be a few new customers, but it's not like the paradigm of motocross sales shifts when a championship changes hands between manufacturers. Honda's reputation was built partly on winning in the 80s and early 90s, but mostly because of word of mouth. Hondas were to be considered bullet-proof. Today's bikes are all very good, but I remember hearing horror stories about everything except Hondas back in the day. Truthfully, Suzuki's bikes used to be know for poor reliability. It is important for the bikes to be raced for R&D and to get the brand name out there. It would look bad for a particular brand if no one wanted to race their bikes. Whether or not they win at the professional level doesn't really reflect on the machine's capabilities but the rider's and his team's capabilities.

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"JDubya", you're right. There's plenty of blame for the current four-stroke fiasco to go around. We can look in the mirror and blame ourselves just as much as anything else. Most of us went out and bought four-strokes, myself included. The big mistake was that most the manufacturers took two-strokes completely out of the picture. The four-stroke honeymoon is over, and I'm getting an annulment. Still, I'm content to race my RM250 against 250Fs, that's an unfair advantage for me.

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MX117::: As I said..... the sales might not show hard numbers right away. But if the winning brings in new fans, the numbers will reflect that in future sales. It is impossible to truly quantify, immediately anyway, things like brand loyalty acquisition numbers. Like I said, if Dungey is winning and swaying the minds of 9-14 year old riders for Suzuki, you won't see those sales impact the numbers for many years...... How many people were won over by McGrath when he rode a Honda? Its impossible to say really.....Honda has a huge brand loyalty base, and that will always make them the best selling bike, and ATV, and in some cases cars..... Suzuki is gaining in market share in every area, just look at their stock price and what its done over the past few years.... Some of that is a reflection of what RC did helping to promote Suzuki with his winning ...... In ATV circles, Suzuki is winning fans because of Dustin Wimmer, and Chris Borich...In MX they are winning fans because of Dungey......those numbers won't be immediate, but they will be there in the future...... ...I'm sure Yamaha is seeing sales based on Stewart, not because he's winning NOW, but because he was winning before, and earned tons of fans for Yamaha......

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As a side note with all this talk about bike prices and it being out of hand and what sells bikes, go look at the posts under the "Suzuki announces 2011 models" article. I see talk(complaints??) about BNG. THAT's what sells bikes, new technology and CHANGE. We all love CHANGE. Even when it takes us nowhere. KTM spent 10 years selling us on PDS and now where are they? Back to linkage. Is that 10 years of advancement or 10 years of change? And now we change again, back to what we had. Huh? So Dungey, Reed, RC, even Alessi winning on the RMZ 450 over the years isn't going to mean anything when the public wants CHANGE and scoffs at BNG. Dungey wins everything this year on a Suzuki RMZ 450, but RMZ 450 sales will be down next year thanks to BNG. Now turn the motor around, tilt it back towards the COG, make a tornado exhaust, and put the airbox under the tank......we've got a sales winner.....that just went up in price substantially. The best part is you'll be a second a lap faster on this baby.

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This is a good discussion. ss97, most MX purchases are based on performance, how a bike will improve your results, not brand loyalty. Right now almost every bike is good if not great so factors like dealer support or proximity, price, and contingency plans come into play. If Suzukis do not improve or change, the public is going to go elsewhere whether they grew up an RC or Dungey fan or not. Lots of people were Can-AM, Bultaco, CZ or Husky loyalists, but when those brands stopped improving they moved onto the new breed of Japanese bikes that offered better performance. This was the demise of almost all of them. I agree that there is some merit to your thinking about future sales and brand loyalty being nurtured today, but that is an awfully small segment of the market. Especially when most riders move around every few years. Did guys that were life-long KX guys because of Stewart switch to Yamahas when he did? What about RC, did guys follow him Kawasaki to Honda to Suzuki? The schneid above said he followed MC from Honda to Yamahas. So much for brand loyalty.

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BKR"I will have to agree with you on this point for sure whats new whats trick every one wants it. When the yzf400 came out i went and got one right away had lodes of fun on it tell it staled and i could not get it started if i was not on a stand or in a hole. With in a month i was back on my 250 from the year before! Sometimes the new is not as good as the old just my thoughts. DUNGEY RULES!!!!!!!!!!

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Bike prices are outta hand. The price is killing our sport and bike sales too.Since EfI became available there isn't alot of things left to do. Who can really afford or justify buying a new bike every year? I remember in the years 97 thru 2002 getting 3 to 4 new bikes a years.The big four still could sell bikes for an affordable price and still make money. Hell a few months ago you could buy a new 2009 crf450 $4999 and the dealer was still making money. Did Honda lose money? NO...

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I bought a slightly used 1800 V-twin Honda for less than a new 450!! Crazy when considering that 1800 will be making long road trips for 10 plus years. a 450 most likely wont be competive in about 2 years..... Anyone see a problem here? lol.... It has gotten really bad..." Gotta pay to play"......

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BKR::: I agree with everything you are saying. But you are talking about people who already ride. I said a while back (I've said a lot I know) that initial brand loyalty is what I was talking about. When you cite personal performance as the driving force behind what racers buy, I agree 100%. And I think that is our disconnect...... I'm only talking about sales, and influence, and those FIRST time buyers. I'm talking about that 12 year old kid that drags Daddy to the Suzuki dealership because of Dungey. That kid (and there are a lot of those) are totally buying into the sport, on Dungey's winning...... Now, as they progress, and become racers, that brand loyalty might change. But Suzuki already made their sale...... If it happens that rider stays on Suzuki for life, buys Suzuki cars, and ATVs, Suzuki owes that to Dungey's winning..... And of course I'm only using Suzuki as an example.....You are talking about racers, I'm talking about first time buyers.....in a sense we are both right....and the fact is, racers and hardcore riders, do indeed buy most of the toys, and thus makeup most of the sales numbers.... So what I'm arguing for is hard to quantify in real time...... Its the ebb-and-flow of economics. Suzuki will only reap the rewards of those new (or converted) buyers with the ebb and flow of the economy....Because hardcore riders will FIND the money, while first time buyers will wait....

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cb49::: It seems like everything is priced out of hand in the off-road world..... I ride and race ATVs, a new 450 will set you back just shy of 10k....which is ridiculous.....

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SS i believe your right with the chad reed situation. He just lost a good friend sharky, he's seen more injuries this year than the terrorist attacks on twin towers. Plus he's a family man with a new kid. That in my opinion is why andrew short cant win. He's such a dedicated family man he wont take the chances like Dean wilson, dungey, or barcia. When you start worrying about getting hurt, chances are your either going to get hurt , or ride sloooooower. Its alot of mental in this game. Dungey doesn't have a wife or kids slowing him down. I had to leave a good girl because she thaught i spent too much time on the practice track, yet she'd be dissapointed with a 4th place. I never got it. but in order to succeed i had to let her go. As far as Regal, Im good friends with his sister Casaundra. He always rode suzuki's as an amatuer. when he turned pro he got a honda deal. He absolutely hated everything about the 09 honda. He hated the frame, the way it handled, wasn't too fond of the motors either. Within a few weeks he aborted mission and jumped on a Yamaha for a few nationals last year, his family put everything towards his career, so obviously they backed him. I have no idea how he ended up back on a honda. I was really hoping he'd get to ride RV's Kawi. he's so bad he could probably put a stock bike top 5, after a horrible holeshot. another thing. since RC has been with suzuki they done nothing but won, and now with RD. Why is honda outselling zook???

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SS i believe your right with the chad reed situation. He just lost a good friend sharky, he's seen more injuries this year than the terrorist attacks on twin towers. Plus he's a family man with a new kid. That in my opinion is why andrew short cant win. He's such a dedicated family man he wont take the chances like Dean wilson, dungey, or barcia. When you start worrying about getting hurt, chances are your either going to get hurt , or ride sloooooower. Its alot of mental in this game. Dungey doesn't have a wife or kids slowing him down. I had to leave a good girl because she thaught i spent too much time on the practice track, yet she'd be dissapointed with a 4th place. I never got it. but in order to succeed i had to let her go. As far as Regal, Im good friends with his sister Casaundra. He always rode suzuki's as an amatuer. when he turned pro he got a honda deal. He absolutely hated everything about the 09 honda. He hated the frame, the way it handled, wasn't too fond of the motors either. Within a few weeks he aborted mission and jumped on a Yamaha for a few nationals last year, his family put everything towards his career, so obviously they backed him. I have no idea how he ended up back on a honda. I was really hoping he'd get to ride RV's Kawi. he's so bad he could probably put a stock bike top 5, after a horrible holeshot. another thing. since RC has been with suzuki they done nothing but won, and now with RD. Why is honda outselling zook???

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I don't see Dungey "taking chances". He is not known for feet off the pegs riding. I have seen him many times and he is cool, calm, and under control at all times. As far as I can tell he is beating everyone with fitness and patience. He followed Windham at Millville for 17 minutes and when he felt it was time to pass him he did and had 50 yards on him in 3 corners. He is being taught very well by RC and DeCoster.

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Add Washougal to the list of venues without "perfect access and lodging". I think Pala desrves props for commiting to such a huge undertaking (logistically and financially) and keeping a NAT in SoCal. Kinda like hitting a hucking a 60' triple without a site lap. I too have seen the plans, the crew there are doing everything in their power and wallets to not only preserve but raise the standarts an event like this deserves. Lets remember this is a first year effort ! Parking wil not be a problem and the track will be wide, disced (?) watered and ready. While its true elevation will be a challenge the facility is defintiely is not "flat" As far as the heat , its MX in the summer . The only "weak" people are the ones that will not be supporting motocross at the Pala National. Welcome back to San Diego big time MX. JimM Carlsbad CA To all the supporters here look me up and Ill buy the ah.... Gatorade

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I agree JDubya Dungey is just at another level now. He very rarely takes any chances. But I don't think Reed EVER was that "take chances" guy either. He either had the speed or he didn't. But he never rode over his head to try and get more speed.

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Um, Jimbo, I'm trying to understand where you're coming from, but nobody has said anthing about Pala in here as far as I can tell. Personally, I'll reserve judgement on Pala until I see the National. "ss97", I'll admit that winning today could mean bike sales further down the road. It's hard to say how long that could take, or if it will happen at all. Seems to be more of a gamble, rather than a sure thing. I've never been swayed by what the best racer was winning on, so it's hard for me to understand that train of thought. Still, I can't deny that there is logic to your point, and you argue it well.

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Start at beginning 117

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Ya can't say when RC went to Honda or to Suz there was no change so thats it. It takes YEARS for this to show up. Honda is still reaping on there 80's and 90's winning. It may take another 5 -10 years for Suz's to show up but it will last a long time when it does if they keep winning.

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I dont know any other guy who can just come back and race a random race and do as good is K-Dub. u better never retire for good!!! my hometrack rocks!! whoop whoop!

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I don't even know why I tried to argue with MX117, and now BKR. You guys are a couple chumps who think you are industry insiders. Your own posts show how little you really know. BKR, I wasn't clear in my post why I ended up on Yamahas. I got a job at Yamaha shop at roughly the same time MC made the switch, although I was stoked to be on the same bike as The King. But I guess you are right about one thing, the brand loyalty. I've never been loyal to a brand, just stayed away from brands I hate. Icurrently own four bikes made up of three brands, and love them all. BTW I have a KX250F and was strongly influenced by the success of the Monster/PC team.

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BILLC, I think I have you figured out. You just love to piss and moan and start arguements. Can anyone post on here without you running your piehole and starting a arguement?? If you was in front of me with those remarks I would knock you flat, just shut-up sometimes would you please. You are like aan old woman who is never happy. What a little bi#ch. YZSEAN, too bad we didnt meet up at Red Bud, would have liked to talk to you man. You can talk and not be a whiney bi#ch all the time. Just talk about moto. BILLC, you dont judge crap the same way you freaking liar, you are the biggest chump out there, closet Stewie lover, post some more Stewie pics on your photo page and go away. crybaby.

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theSchneid7, when BillC chimes in to back you up....be worried. Oh, and sorry for commenting on what YOU wrote. I wasn't trying to belittle you or criticize you. I thought it would be ok to use what you wrote to show how brand loyalty can turn out. Didn't realize you wrote it differently than you meant it. On to the name calling to prove your point....... It's ok, can't say it bothers me if someone that buys bikes based on a team winning thinks I'm a chump.

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is it just me or does Ping look like a chubby Lt. Dangle from Reno 911? LOL!!!

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