by Steve Cox
450 Words: RedBud
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In this article…
Riders
- James Stewart
- Andrew Short
- Chad Reed
- Chris Pourcel
- Ricky Carmichael
- Dean Wilson
- Ryan Dungey
- Josh Grant
Races
Sometimes, things just seem to be rolling your way. The two seasons where Ricky Carmichael won every single moto outdoors, or the season when James Stewart did the same, are good examples of this. Lots of things can happen on the track, and sometimes it just takes plain ol’ luck to be on your side to keep things going.
One recent example? Chris Pourcel winning the 250cc class in Texas with a 1-5 score because Dean Wilson’s brain got too cooked on the last lap. Pourcel got lucky. It’s not to say Pourcel wasn’t deserving of the win, but it’s not like it was all in his control.
Ryan Dungey (5) was frequently even closer than this to Ben Townley (101) in the first moto.
Photo: Steve Cox
Rockstar/Makita Suzuki’s Ryan Dungey has demonstrated this a couple of times this year. For example, after winning two overalls in a row, Dungey finished third in the first moto at Budds Creek, opening the door for first-moto winner Andrew Short to win the overall, but Short couldn’t back up the first-moto win, while Dungey went out and won the second moto. That doesn’t seem like much of a big deal, but then we go to Colorado, where Dungey is straight-up beaten by JGR/Muscle Milk/Toyota Yamaha’s Josh Grant in the first moto. Grant was the fastest qualifier and flat-out passed Dungey and pulled away to win the moto. Then, at the start of moto two, Grant goes down in the first turn while Dungey cruises on ahead to take the win in the moto and overall.
Even when Dungey isn’t the fastest guy, he’s still winning. That’s when you know things are going your way.
And in the first moto at RedBud, Dungey had made a couple of moves on TLD/Lucas Oil Honda’s Ben Townley for the moto win, but Townley was able to hold him off with sheer willpower. That is until, on the last lap, Townley – exhausted – overjumped the back step-up and landed in the ruts, cross-rutting and going down. If his bike careened to the left, it would go into the path of defending champ Chad Reed of the Monster Energy Kawasaki team. If it careened to the right, it would head into the path of Dungey. Reed and Dungey were nose-to-tail, and Reed nearly had the pass completed a couple of times. It was a close race.
And which way did the bike go?
Chad Reed (1) was all over Dungey (5) throughout the moto, too. But in the end...
Photo: Steve Cox
Like I said, when things are going your way, they’re going your way; the bike went left, into Chad Reed’s path. Dungey took the win.
Now, this is not to say that Dungey is lucky. That would be overstating it a lot. You don’t win five races in a row, or a supercross title in your rookie year, through luck.
But it can help a little...
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I kind of thought (hoped) after the retirement of RC and the demise of JS that we would be seeing a new era of super tight racing w/ all teams & riders viable (kind of like early '80's). This Dungey kid obviously hasn't got the memo. It's good to see Suzuki finally grabbing some MX/SX titles after years of nothing. Moto, atv, road race, these guys are killing it. Wonder if they'll bring the teams back in-house or is it gonna be all yoshimura all the time?
You are right carlsbad, but we are seeing closer racing and multiple moto winners now that RC has retired. Someone better step up quick and get some or Dungey will run away with this. No matter how lucky some fans say he is, he is kicking the rest of the classes tail. they might get a moto win here or there, but as long as he continues to get 2nd when he doesnt win, and take the moto 2 wins, it doesnt mean a whole lot for the title now.
Davey, please please please reconsider the TV package next year. I really hate NBC! NBC didn't run the race... not late, not partial, NOT AT ALL in New England! Babar and some other stupid cartoown were apparently more important. And you can never catch a re-run if it isn't originally aired on Speed. And I HATE the whole BS with showing highlights from the first moto. SHOW BOTH MOTOS!!! This is motocross for God sakes!!! Cut out the fluff, add more racing!
He is lucky and he is good rider at the same time. 2010 seems to be his year. Will see what happens when RV, Bubba and Pourcel are stepping and coming in the 450 class. For now enjoy the ride kid!!!
You wouldn't have seen the race if they aired it anyway. NBC is too busy with commercials and explaining what "dirt" is with some racing clips in between triumph-of-human-spirit segments. NBC is unequivocally terrible... and for the love of god man, 450s need to go second. Since when does the headlining band play first or the under card go after the main event? Great season otherwise!
Why is no one Bashing Cox's?? Thats All I have said and people say i hate and cut on RD...Hmmmmm Again I have NEVER said RD was not good, Just that everything is falling his way this year Like I have never seen before on top of being Fast and in good shape its all falling his way. All his SX crashes, The bike never stalled, Others go down Pipes get plugged or bones break. IMO RD was ready to crack ( I mean he was run down)from the long SX season, Its showed after RV went down, He was VERY bad for 2 weeks and the first Nat as well( we may read some day that he was shot maybe). It will make him stronger for next year but I wonder what would have been if it went all the way.
It was on NBC for me guys and I am in New England.
Ok BillC I'll make ya happy. Why can't you and Cox get over this "Lucky" bs? If RD was 15 seconds behind BT with no one behind him or during SX he was running second in points behind RV with no wins then sure he's lucky. But he's stomping everyone out there and has been since after hangtown with only a couple of exceptions. Get over it dudes and give Dungey the respect and props he's totally earned, without getting lucky. Has he put himself in the right place and the right time to capitalize on others mistakes? Definitely but that's not being lucky that's being a great racer. Has he needed those extra 8 points that he has been fortunate to get? Not really, he'd still have over a 2 moto lead. If it comes down to those 8 points at the end of the series then I'll give you he got a gift but it's not luck, it's being on fire and pushing the field.
Sure hope Pourcel DOESN'T ride for France on the 450. It could mean an end of the line for Team USA. It took a first turn crash in the third moto last year for USA to hold off the French and win the des Nations. We might not be so lucky this year ??!!!!
I agree STILLRIDE the NBC Tv package is absolutely terrible. Stop with BS stories, stop cutting away from the racing to have some know nothing bimbo with an over inlflated...ego talk to fans who have absolutely zero to contribute, just stop. It's time to clear the board and figure out a new way, it's NOT working. In a one hour time slot I would expect to see every single lap of a 35 minute moto. Not the case. It's not even the commercials getting in the way, commercials I can handle, you've got to pay the bills. Why the Hahn piece ? 1) They ran it last week 2) Neither Hahn brother was racing. It just seems lazy, like they need filler so they don't have to show that boring racing stuff. Man I hate NBC's coverage.
One more point BillC and Coxy boy. If this were RC, JS or RV neither of you would be saying anything about luck other than how lucky Grant, Short, Reed and BT have been. Face it you guys jsut don't want to admit that a 'B' class rider has been able to make it to the Top of the sport and is kickin butt!
And what does Jamie Bestwick have to do with motocross? All the respect to the guy but seems I'd much rather see motocrossers talk about motocross! Is Jeff Emig going to go call the half pipe competition at the X games? Rather see Milsaps or Vilopoto or JBS or RC in the booth- they deserve to be there. I know it's a big deal to have "live" coverage and I know it's only an hour program but motocross is and always has been and always should be about two motos! Cut out the BS that nobody cares about and show the damn race!! Other than that- Jeff Emig Bailey DC for a week are doing a great job and nobody knows more about motocross then them. Oh and please no more Lee Diffy! he should stay with four wheels on europe where he belongs!!
I totally agree with you guys about the coverage on NBC.. It seems like they waste time on story telling to try and get new fans, rather than just showing the motes... Also, if RD has been getting LUCKY,, I think he's due..... That Kid has had some bad luck in his young career.. Look at RC for example,, only missing ONE SX season in his whole career ??? A little luck was involved in that...
My DVR didn't even pick up the NBC coverage. No re-airing? Speed uses one title, NBC uses another. Now what title is NBC using cuz I thought I had all the different titles entered into my DVR?. Came home from the river all excited to watch Red Bud and "nothing". Man, that burns!!! From the looks of other comments I didn't miss much other than frustration for NBC.
- I think I have === Motocross,,, Motorcycle racing,, AMA Pro Racing .... That pretty much covers everything as far as recording the motocross.. I have Directv, and I have them set up as autorecords. DeleteReported
Looking at the crash by BT101 i think if he would have cross rutted right he would have not even wend down. When he cross rutted left he went of the track and the drop is what put him down. So i don't feel RD5 had good luck BT101 had bad luck and that really sucked would have been great to see what would have happened if all 3 could have raced to the end! DUNGEY RULES!!!!!!!!!
BillC, cox didnt say Dungey was lucky. He said "you dont win 5 races in a row and a supercross title through luck....but it can help a little". Sure there is a little bit of luck in every race for every rider that wins. What if RC had a rider go down in front of him while having the perfect season and his bike broke or he was injured. He was lucky that didnt happen but it wasnt luck that won him the titles.
What I think we are seeing with RD is better preparation yielding fruit. He is generally the fastest or no worse than 2nd fastest guy in the moto. Yes, he's had a few breaks, but that happens. If the topic is RD and luck, I think last year (outdoors on the 250) was the year. When the other guy wins more than twice as many motos, leads more than twice as many laps, twice as many poles, and YOU still win the championship..... well, I'd be afraid to change socks or underwear.
Halsey, if Directv throws the sponsor into the title, it could screw up the pick up. I got burned a few times before. Pummel: Bestwick and the other dude with the accent are better than Ralph Shaheen, be grateful for that. I agree on DC and especially Bailey, "ya know"?!! Fro's getting better...And to all those who subscribe to luck: don't forget about sheer determination and preparation.
Moto 1 was the best race of the year hands down,,I was pulling for reed, but you have to give it to "The Kid" RD5 is ....killen it.
Agree best race so far was moto 1 but I was pulling for Townley, however Reed had me on my toes. I kept thinking something is going to happen. How about when Everyone thought Dungey made the pass, and then coming off of Laroccos leap you realize Townley got him back. This happened a few laps and I was at the stand by the ski jump so you couldnt see the other side of whoops till they jumped the leap. Oh man was so much fun. Townley was the man of the day for sure. You know he didnt have a factory bike and held off 2 of the most paid factory guys. I saw Pingree by the ski jump excited like a baby every time Townley jumped. Ping is an awesome guy.
If only Grant can put 2 motos together, or may be Reed and Townley. You know once Dungey wraps this title early he will stop winning. Because he will start supercross testing and not focus on mx that much. He stopped winning once Rv got hurt and he knew he got the title. Similar to Pourcel, they just ride smart doing only what you have to do to win.
Just read some posts not taking anything away from Dungey he is good but man how can Townley's bike falling on Reeds way instead of Dungey not count as luck? I mean Dungey was on BT's tail right there but for some reason switched the line and Reed got the bad luck instead. call it what you want but i know if you ask dungey or reed they will tell you its pure luck.
As for MXON IF JS can take a break from sitting at the couch and we have RD,JS and Canard, I think we can stop France other than that Musquin and Pourcel are just on a different level right now. Musquin is gonna smoke the 250 class hands down. If JS doesnt go then Grant might. Dont forget a very strong Aussie Reed and Townley and metcalf. that can be a deadly combination.
Weimer or Pourcel gonna be on Honda 450. Canards already signed I have to say I dont see Pourcel leaving Green. KTM is going to be a player in the 450 class next year with a big name riding the 350 indoors. I think RV is going to be on that 350 KTM. millsaps out of Red and apparently Josh Grant hasnt come into terms. His dad did an interview and said Grants deal is done but i guess not. Its no secret Alessi is so unhappy with the 350 and i dont know what team wants them. JS still at L&M but bike brand still a mystery.JGR also might be on different color bike.
"dgizzy"...Townley will be riding for team New Zealand, not team Australia.
Dgizzy, you seem to have some inside info. I dont think Honda will mess w/ weimer on his rookie 450 season. I truely thaught it would be bubba and Trey riding red. I think austin stroupe would be a perfect candidate for KTM and the 350. Kawi should hang on to pourcel. I would Love to see JGR start working with Kawi's or suzuki's. Cant help but think how good kyle cunningham would have been doing on a a rockstar canadae suzook. It's not holding Hahn back. I think he'd be breaking into a few podiums. Stroupe needs to ride that 350. His holeshots are on point too!
dgizzy, what you smokin bro?
Townley falling was bad luck for Reed not good luck for Dungey. How can you be fighting for the lead and the rider that you've been dicing with the whole race makes a mistake and falls be called luck. Now I agree when you're down a bunch of points at the end of the season and someones bike breaks allowing you to win the championship, well thats lucky. oh and Townley's from NewZealand is he not.
I have heard from a reliable source that RV has talked with KTM and has ageed to ride the 350 if and only if Tony Alessi will be his trainer.
All this luck garbage! Does anyone remember a certain guy known as MC and how many times he got "lucky" and missed situations while his comp got caught up in it? How about all those "lucky" saves we watched RC pull out of his ass over and over. It's a funny thing about champions and luck......things always seem to go their way. I think KTM is going to have a hard time finding anyone willing to ride the 350 after seeing Alessi this year. The prospect of racing 450s on a 350 probably is not on the top of most pros' wish-lists. Especially after seeing the best starter ever (possibly) no longer getting holeshots. KTM does not have to push this bike in national MX comp to sell a ton of them.
No, dgizzy read Matthes Observations column at Transworld. His (dgizzy) comments are word for word extracts. If I could pick a guy to race the 350, would be RV. One, because his riding style works for it, second, it would show up Alessi. And his son.
fczook... CALM down, I NEVER said RD is not Fast, NEVER said he did not earn his titles!! Like ElsinoreRacer said, he's had a few breaks, Thats all I am saying so don't take what I said the the extream. You say BT had bad luck, well Like I said BT could have fell to his right...Then what?? Well that would have been good luck for Reed and not so good for RD.... You say RD Has he put himself in the right place and the right time to capitalize on others mistakes...Well if he new BT was going down RD really is something then!!! See what happens when I take your words to the extream?? Lood at RD worce crash in SX this year... He could have been hurt REAL bad, But he was not and his bike never even staled, Right?? Thats good luck. Now look at RV 2 worce crashes..First one his pipe got pluged, the next one broke his leg...BAD LUCK...Thats all I am pointing out. WWhen you are on a roll things go your way.
BKR That is true, RC had many craches that could have ended his season/life!! But he always come thru it fine, sans the knee once. But many Champs have not been so lucky to stay healthy. So its not just a champ thing IMO, Some just seem to be much more lucky, Not that they are not great.. Like RD, GREAT rider and has some great luck... A deadly combo!!!
fczook I almost forgot, Did you read 5 min with RD?? Here is what RD said about it.. "Ryan Dungey: You know, it was a freak accident. We were all pushing real hard and it’s just one of them deals. He [Townley] went down. I was lucky I didn’t get caught up in the back of him. I was able to remount and still win"... Hmmmm seems You know more than he does... Congrats to you!!
dgizzy, You are insane. RV2 on a KTM?? Are yopu serious? Canard will be on a Honda. And maybe Pourcel. And I dont think we need a part-timer racing for us in the Des Nations. We will be fine. And the last race I saw, Musquin didnt even win the moto. If he cant smoke them in ?Europe, how is he going to beat them here??
CR500, Direct TV does not have anything to do with the guide information.. That is all done by the networks. If they were to just put "MOTOCROSS" in the information, then we would be set. Then you could just do an autorecord for the keyword "motocross."
bd why is it OK for RD to not will every moto but you cut on Musquin for not winning a moto...He has a HUGE points lead just like RD so in your words Musquin does not need to win them all he is smart and looking at the big pic.... Don't be a Hypocrite.....
"BillC"...Sure, Dungey mentioned being "Lucky" in reference to Townley going down, but that's just something people say..."I Got Lucky"....Also, the word may mean something different to you then it does to me. Some use the word like it is some sort of tangible entity, something with a mystical presence that determines all things in life. Townley went down to the left, and Dungey went right, it wasn't luck, it was just Dungey's line choice and it worked out.
Luck or not, RD5 is still winning the title. He leads in points, more over-alls, and moto wins, "Talent" trumps "Luck"! As far as RV going to KTM? could happen. They (Kawasaki) broomed James Stewart while he was on top, to sign RV2, the "Next"big thing didn't they? Why wouldn't they broom a injury-riddled guy like RV2 for the "next" big thing(CP377)?
....and because he chose to go right he was lucky not to fall down. Words more, words less, it leaded to the same quote "He got lucky" Take it for what is worth. He is a lucky champ this year. Also an awesome rider.
Still arguing, BillC? It never ends. Anybody notice that dgizzy comes out here reeling off "facts" with his "authoritative" voice, and then if HE gets lucky (what with all the luck talk here) and gets ONE of them right, he comes back saying, "see, I told you so!" Therefore, I generally try to ignore him. The sun even shines on a dog's ass once in awhile. And hey, people are still drudging up Dungey's "lucky" championship last year. Does anyone actually realize that Dungey did EXACTLY what he needed to do to be in that position, and that following Pourcel's DNF, he was only nine points down with three motos to go? If "superman" wins out, he's the champ. But he pouted through moto two at Southwick to an 11th while Dunge charged through ALL THREE MOTOS and did the deed. Lucky bastard.
preparation + opportunity = luck.
As for the DVR stuff, if you know the race is at X time, can't you scroll to that time and network and push record? I do that every week and it never fails -- AMA moto, GNCC, MotoGP, World Superbike, MXGPs.... Good thing I don't have a wife that nags me about all the racing I watch!
RV wil bounce back stronger like RC did. Any factory team will be winning big time by having him under their tent
And as for the ****ing about the coverage ... I watched both first motos LIVE on my big screen (off the Internet), moto two of the 450s LIVE (ok, the presentation could be better, but hey, it was LIVE ON NBC!) and 250 moto two the next day. That beats the hell out of Carlsbad on ABC a few months after the fact! Are we really that spoiled? Newsflash: this is NOT MLB, NFL, NBA, or anything close! True, WE love it, but mx will NEVER be as big as the mainstream sports. Get over it, and enjoy what we have! BTW, I liked Jamie Bestwick -- because it was quite clear that he is a FAN, and he was clearly familiar with the riders and what was going on (unlike, say, Ralph Sheheen). Maybe you have a problem with British accents?
Sef, I agree, I scroll down and press "Record". Never fails. I believe we Moto-Geeks believe our sport should rival NFL,MLB,NBA. Unfortuneately, It doesn't. Enjoy what we have, it HAS been Worse.
Sef who is arguing?? I just made an observation. The sun must be in your eyes today!! Funny I rememeber RD fadeing at Southwick Knowing he just got a gift when CP's bike broke and he could not fully capitalize on it. But U think CP should be able to win out. Either way ... here is that word you all love "IF" CP's bike did not break RD does not win that title most likely. Sure you can blame CP for not winning out but till that point he was the better rider so i guess ya could say its RD fault for not winning more, he needed CP to dnf.
Before you all go on your Rants..I Hate..ECT.. I was pulling for RD last year, It was Him VS the world. Just like this year the US is getting there clock cleaned in the lites class. But I just hate to see a Guy, Any Guy lose that way. If My Fave gets beat thats fine he got beat. But when a bike breaks thats a crappy way to lose.
wow, BIllC, bringing up LAST years 250 class title?!?!?! REALLY??? Why don't you dig up RD5's amature career stats also because it really matters TODAY!!!!!! Man, you are a weird duck!!!
Hey when I was a little kid my Fav Ridder was Jeff Ward. There was a few titles he won because RJ got hurt or his bike broke, I never liked RJ but even as a little Kid I knew that year RJ was the better rider and Jeff got a gift to win that title. I feel CP was the better rider then and got screwed by a motor. Why do some have such a problem with other peoples opions??
It was SEF that brought it UP FattireGUy!! Can ya read?? Or could you jsut not wait to put in a dig at me??
Getting a fourth or fifth place start, then passing everyone to get in the lead and pulling a 15-20 second gap on second place isn't luck. It is hard work during the week.
Well sef, regarding last year, what does luck look like? Would it be when, out of 40 guys on the line, one guy's gate malfunctions, putting him at the back of the pack, and it happens to be Pourcel? Or when they red-flag a start (in a sloppy mud-fest) because of a 30-second girl malfunction and nullify a holeshot by.... Pourcel? Or would it be when, at the 1st event, they work out a boneheaded MickeyMouse flag/rules problem, but not before it costs points of..... Pourcel? You have three choices: denial (none of this happened), it was an evil government conspiracy, or luck. Well, they happened, and I don't think you are a conspiracy nut. We are left with luck. But you say no to luck, so it makes one wonder what you put it down to. Side note just for fun: We have run 12 of the 24 motos this year. CP has won 7 of them, +-half of his 13 total for last summer. RD's total for the WHOLE 09 season? Six (6).
I will tell you right now if you watched the guy in 15th you would see him getting lucky at least 2 to 3 times in any race. It is just magnified when it's a championship contender every rider out there gets lucky in some races and unlucky in others that's just racing! DUNGEY RULES!!!!!!!!!
Well said ElsinoreRider, I can't get my point across aswell so I get bashed, They love to even when someone else says something just like me they just zero in on me. LOL its fun. It seems ya can't say anything but good things about RD or people get mad.
drkelly AGAIN no one said RD is not a GREAT rider, Never said passing 5 to win is luck. Man why do so many take a coment to the extream??
Sean again you are taking it to the extream... he!! every time I get of the bike safe I got lucky in a way. But we are talking about luck that changes a hole title fight in the blink of an eye. Again like I said before look at what happen in SX this year, RV vs RD, crash for crash.. who was luckyer?? Also again RD IS GREAT and is the CHAMP, not dising him just looking at how it all unfolded thats all.
BILL" As far as the suppercross RV2 unlucky thing goes i don't think luck had anything do do with it he was inpatient and pushed when he made a mistake the jump before. If he would have been patient he would not have been in those sitchuation. Nether happened in the last lap there was plenty of time to make up for the bad jump before the crash! DUNGEY RULES!!!!!!!!!
I'm not trying to pick on anyone specifically but some commenters seem to harp on particular points, myself included. I just don't subscribe to the "Luck" thing in general. S##t happens and when it does it can help you, hurt you or have nothing to do with you but it happens all the time. When people subscribe to "Luck" playing into their outcome it demeans their accomplishments and gives excuses to those that want some kind of justification for why things don't go their way. Hey if that helps you to cope or cop out then go for it. I just happen to not think that way.
BillC, it was Elsinore who brought up last year; I just responded to that. Can ya read? LOL. Elsinore, those are all valid points, as is yzsean's -- that every rider has good or bad luck. Dungey had issues last year, too, and he was the younger, less experienced of the championship contenders. Yet, he put himself in position to win the championship. How come all the "Dungey got lucky last year" people have no response to Pourcel's virtually quitting in the second moto at Southwick? BillC, Dungey didn't "fade" there. The only person to pass him was Barcia, who was on a mission that day. But ... at that point, Dungey (watch for the theme here) did what was needed at the time. With Pourcel pouting back in 11th, why risk battling "that little kid" for two extra points? You see? Then he could have battled it with CP at Steel City ... but why? Talented AND smart. And Bill, you type post after post -- and each one is an argument with somebody! Although I'm sure you see it as "correcting others' mistakes."
Well everyone puts themself in a position to win a championship if things go the right way SEF, The guy in 3rd could win if the top 2 get hurt... The guy in 4th could now win if the guy in 3rd goes down... see how silly that sounds... He was doing the best he could and was down a LOT of points before the motor popped..... He was lucky to make up so many points that day. Sean You are right on your point, But my point is RD crashed in much the same way a did not get hurt or even have his bike stall.... Or have his pipe get plugged.. See my point?? PS SEF its 3 extra points..LOL
If you make it through an entire race and no one falls in front of you I suppose you can call that luck if you like. and if your bike doesnt break I guess you can call that luck too...if you want. And if the gate gets hung up.....ok on the gate deal with Poucel, that was a mechanical malfunction and luck or bad luck had nothing to do with it and it should have been red flagged.
BillC I don't know where you are in New England, but the Boston market didn't have any Red Bud coverage for the 450's. I searched everywhere on Fios for it with my DVR... it wasn't there bud. It should not be a part time job to find what obscure configuration it is in the guide anyway. I even went as far as recording the stupid cartoons in the guide for that time slot, hoping that the guide was wrong. And why with all the useless BS that they air over and over on Speed can't they slip in some more re-runs of MX racing? How many episode of Pinks and Unique Whips do you really need for God sake?? The GNCC's and Enurocross on Mav TV air about a bazillion times. Is'nt AMA Motocross a little higher on the food chain than those?? Give me a break.
Bill" the one big difference between RD5's crash and RV2's crash was RD5 was LEADING and he cross rutted was not pushing past his covert zone and riding over his head. DUNGEY RULES!!!!!!!!!
BillC, I'm gonna race into the Quicky mart, slap my cash on the counter, and "LUCK" will either smile or frown on me as to whether i win the lotto!!! Hopefully, i will be lucky and not go down in the parking lot, injuring myself. Thus handing the winning ticket to the "Lucky" guy BEHIND me.. HUH?? Thats luck, although I am training my butt off to win this lotto!!!!!
"Well everyone puts themself in a position to win a championship if things go the right way SEF, The guy in 3rd could win if the top 2 get hurt... The guy in 4th could now win if the guy in 3rd goes down... see how silly that sounds..." Yes, BillC, I do. But then, you say a lot of silly things. Dungey "was down a LOT of points before the motor popped....."? Well, after 20 motos, it was less than one moto's worth. And btw, Pourcel was in fifth when his motor quit (I was there); IF it doesn't, and IF he stays in fifth (it was late in the moto), the points after Southwick would have been: Dungey 459, Pourcel 458. Hmmm.
"fattire" I just got my tickets i figure seeing how i am the biggest RD5 fan on here i will have some good luck it's bound to rub off! DUNGEY RULES!!!!!!!!!
Ok so Townley was unlucky because he fell and Dungey was lucky Townley fell and Reed was unlucky Townley fell but Townley was lucky he wasnt injured and Reed was lucky he wasnt injured.....I'm confused!
SMOKIN" That's the best post so far who's on first! DUNGEY RULES!!!!!!!!!
I was there too SEF ( although I don't see how that matters) If he got the 5th like you said thats 17 points... HE is the Champ!!!
5th = 16
Sean, just share the wealth, I will most likely roll a ankle, handing you the winning ticket!!! (I'm a Reed guy, nothing but bad luck!!)
I like Reed, Dungey and Townley...I am both lucky and unlucky.
wow, some of you guys must not have a job. How can you comment so much? Just look at the times of your comments, geez. Oh by the way nice read Cox.
No luck involved for RD. Dungey trained harder than everyone else before race day to be in the position/good enough shape to pressure BT into a mistake on the last lap. Dungey chose the line around the BT carnage, Reed chose the line into the BT carnage. Dungey kept Reed behind him the whole moto.......none of this was "luck" Dungey is poised to be the youngest rider at 20 yrs to own ALL the titles, 250 SX, 250 outdoor, MX Des Nations, 450 SX, perhaps the 450 outdoor. Just because a rider doesnt win every race in the season like RC, JS, outdoors or MC (almost) indoors doesnt mean he isnt dominant. Those guys having undefeated seasons in NOT the standard its the exception.
Villopoto would surely be battling if not winning if he wasn't hurt. He and dungey are a good battle. If i was a team manager i'd be looking at DEan Wilson as the next best thing. after that, theres a kid adam C who hauls a**$. Theres alot of fast guys. Dungey's getting it done, but not winning like RC in his prime. He can be beat. ask josh grant. I kind of dont think dungey will do good in the southwick sand but that kid has proven me wrong so many times before. Its hard to believe that 2 he lost the sx title to j'law and now he cant be beat on a big bike
Garjan111, I barely have time to comment and certainly dont have time to read everyones comment times.
smokin, thats funny
Why would I expect you to do anything but dig your heels in and refuse to acknowledge anything I say, BillC? As I said before, a fifth for Pourcel at Southwick last year in that moto, along with his sad excuse for a second moto (Frenchie doesn't like to get dirty?) and Dungey leaves with a one-point lead. Everything that happens at Steel City the next week is based on THAT (i.e. Dungey goes for the win, rather than riding safely). Nobody knows how it would have played out (I know, you do, genius), but my point is, the DNF alone did NOT determine last year's 250 championship. Dungey made his own luck, and he continues to do so.
I haven't been reading these posts for long but what I have seen is that BillC is usually unreadable or at least totally scattered. Sorry Bill, but I often have a hard time following you. I don't always agree with yzsean but he nailed the luck thing with his post: "if you watched the guy in 15th you would see him getting lucky at least 2 to 3 times in any race. It is just magnified when it's a championship contender every rider out there gets lucky in some races and unlucky in others that's just racing!" Spot on Sean!
sef, what would the point lead have been when the motor popped if not for the flag dealio at round one, the malfuntioning gate, and the red-flagged holeshot? "HMMMM?"
BT 101 riding style looks like RIck Johnson's back from 1989! Especially since they both are on the same brand of bike! Keep improving, Ben! I liked the way you fought Dungey instead of giving it up easily like the rest of the goon squad!
Well sef at least you said "LUCK"... If RD made his "LUCK" are you saying he had something to do with CP's bike going down?? LOL JK.. Sef will you at least admit the Blown motor made it easer for Rd to win the Title?? At this point I will take it. Kwtriple thats because I am so far ahead of everyone!!Try and keep up. ;) LOL
BILL" You must be a pretty good racer you just hate to lose and refuse to do so. I respect that in a competitor i know it's the way i race but it gets me in some trouble some times but you know what i don't care 2 SUCKS! DUNGEY RULES!!!!!!!!!
Taking it down a notch, luck IS part of racing and adds to the fun, I think, in the long run. First time I won a moto (3 million years ago), I was in 3rd with about 4 corners to go, the first 2 fighting, when the guy in 2nd's frnt brake cable snapped at the end of the big straight. He plowed into the leader and they both went over what amounted to a small cliff. Still makes me grin. On the other hand, except for once, all my flat tires have come late in a moto after a good start. Thanks for that.
To the people that like to make fun of others who use the word "luck" what do you call it when things go your way?? If the Guy ahead of you in points DNF's a Moto what is it?? If you case a jump and don't get hurt what is it?? If you crash real hard and don't get hurt what do you call it?? Lots of you fall back to he put himself in position to win the championship... Well it does not mater how well you got ready for the race u can't control the things around you. If a laper Takes out RD this week or he DNF's 3 moto's and Reed wins the title what will you say?? He was better prepared?? Or he got lucky that RD got cleaned out because RD was kicking his a**??
LOL SEAN!!! NEVER give up!!! I just think I can't get my point across sometimes the way it is in my head LOL. You going to be at Southwick or The Dilla??
no, Billc I would call it skill. LOL
Hey, about RD5 and luck, I'm surprised no one mentioned his first (wasn't it?) SX season, the one with J-Whocares. RD was pretty unlucky. Twice he had lappers ride under or into him. Another time a bike was crashing in the other lane coming opposite way. He made a few mistakes (as did whats his name), but the difference in the title was stuff he pretty much had no control over. Happens both ways.
ElsinoreRacer the RD fans don't believe in luck so I guess J-Flaw was better prepared or put himself in a spot to win. LOL RD did through it away a lot back the. I remember a few yard sale crashes. One time 2 in one lap. He sure is a dif rider now. Boy J-Flaw could get in his head!! Maybe The 450 guys should Hire J-Flaw to F with RD's head so they can win!! LOL
Elsinore, you're pretty hung up on your laundry list of Pourcel's "bad luck." The "flag dealio" was Pourcel disobeying the flag (tough luck). I'm not convinced the "malfunctioning gate" had nothing to do with the way Pourcel hit it (we'll never know). And "the red-flagged holeshot"? Would you have them continue the race with the entire inside being blocked by a Monster girl? On the restart, didn't everyone have the same opportunity? And do you suppose Dungey had NO "bad luck" during the series (like, for example, other riders crossing in front of him as he came through the pack)? Also, what you and others fail to acknowledge is that the series played out in part BASED ON the situation at the time. If the points had been different, maybe Dungey hangs it out further. We'll never know, and it doesn't matter. What happened happened. Still not ONE WORD on why Pourcel inexplicably moped around Southwick to an 11th. Was that bad luck? Or the REAL difference maker. Again, we'll never know. The championship was/is the sum of ALL of its parts.
BillC, I don't remember many people bagging on J-Lawless at the time of his Lites title. I DO remember lots of people calling Dungey a "choker." That label continued right here in these threads through 2009 and even into 2010 SX. Everybody has their opinion. (Just like A-holes -- everybody has one and they're often full of sh@t.)
Maybe they could go to Fuel TV and show all 4 motos live... (sometimes 6 motos).
If you have a well thought out plan and things go your way I call it deserved. If the guy ahead on points dnf's thats unfortunate for him. If you case a jump I call it perhaps a lack of concentration and a situation you caused and how you land and how fit you are may determine if you get hurt. Actually BillC, I'm just giving you a hard time and I see your point. This whole luck thing is just different ways to look at it. Everyone on the line is lucky to be alive and the rest is just racing!
sef, you are a liberal, am I correct? I am judging from your start-gate comment. That was so unmistakably what it was, that to be able to interpret it as anything else is only in the province of those who can reshape any fact into what they want.
BillC, you are persistent. If a lapper takes Dungey out this week and he DNFs that isn't bad luck, that is Dungey making a mistake by putting himself in a position to let a lapper take him out. That's why you often complain that he doesn't pass guys quickly, he is doing risk assessment out there. He calculates his risks and sticks with high percentage moves. The more chances you take the more probability there is for bad luck, just like in gambling or the stock market. If you stick with the odds, what you refer to as luck comes more often.
I love it when guys can't argue moto here without throwing out the "politics card." Elsinore, I've long since deleted that race from my DV-R, or wherever I might have had it, but what I remember is that the gate in question didn't malfunction for anyone else that night, and if I'm not mistaken, Pourcel timed the start so as to hit the gate with his tire before it got to the ground, and I couldn't help but wonder whether the force of his tire caused the gate to bounce back up. But as a conservative (I'm just assuming based on your "jab"), I'm sure that in your eyes there is but one way to look at this. Call it whatever the hell you want to call it; Ryan Dungey won that championship -- and virtually everything he's entered since then. (I'm talking series; don't start in about individual races -- though there is that MXdN thing.)
Some say he's lucky even with a 64 point lead already, sounds kinda dumb don't you think?
I take that as a yes. Not arguing politics, just find it interesting how you can tell who is who by how rigid they are about the facts "thing." And no, CP's gate was not the only one. CP was against the start shack, Barcia was on his other side. Barcia's bounded up too, in sync with CP's, but about half as high. THEN his tire hit it (he IS allowed to go then). Notice the ones to the right. Pretty clear, dude. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89Ea42bUHLU
Well, dude (that's that conservative superiority thing you've got going on there -- I'm not impressed), your little 11 second clip may prove your point -- or it may prove mine. Not to mention you don't seem to be a great reader. I said, "the gate in question didn't malfunction for anyone else that night," and you responded with "CP's gate was not the only one." Hello? First, your little clip doesn't show that, and second, maybe certain gates (or the whole thing!) were "bouncy" and were inclined to do what they did if you hit them with your front tire before they went down. But, oh, I'm sorry; you're the "conservative," so you must have the right answer. And my statement still stands: Ryan Dungey won that championship -- and virtually everything he's entered since then. Your "conspiracy/bad luck theory" changes NOTHING. As yzsean would say, have a great night (and try not to choke on your conspiracy). It must suck to always think you have the answer. Usually NOT a sign of great intelligence.
Why would anyone bring up politics on a motocross website.This is a place to discuss MX not your political views.
BKR U have got to be kidding!!! U think RD cane control eveything doing risk assessment, That is FUNNY!!! OK how does he control this one, He hits a Huge jump that someone just crashed on and the flag man was to slow to let RD know it, RD is in the air now How does the all knowing one get out of this one?? Hmmmmmmmm... so he crashes, breaks his leg and is out for the reast of the season....See my point yet??
"It must suck to always think you have the answer. Usually NOT a sign of great intelligence." Funny the same thing could be said about you SEF.
Yes, it could, Billy, if you're reading impaired. Let's see. One person argues on and on that he KNOWS what happened to a rider on the track; I argue that we just can't be sure. Does that really sound like I think I have the definitive answer? In fact, that's how a lot of our arguments go, isn't it? It's frustrating to come out here and read posts from know-it-alls who a) can't possibly grasp an alternate idea, and/or b) don't know the difference between a disagreement of ideas and a personal insult -- so they get worked up and start the name calling. And if they can throw politics in, all the better. Sound familiar?
And the winner is???? BillC!!! This was a hard match but the post master that endured longer is the one with the victory... Good job BillC, epic post race. Enjoy sweet victory. And I agree with you, RD' is a great rider and also has been as lucky as it gets.
Thanks moto0619!!! I won.... am I that good or did I get lucky?? LOL....Maybe the facts speak for themself.
SEf there is a lot of proof out there, U just don't want to see it. Reminde me of an intervie I saw with Barny Frank after Fredy and Fanny faild, 6 months before he said Fredy and fanny are strong going foward, They played the vidio for him he sits there and says " I never said that" WTF we just saw the tape!!! But he says I never said that!!! My head was spinning!!! The guy is a tool and will never let facts get in his way.
That was really funny Bill.. HAHAHA!!!This time I think you were totally prepared to endure, or maybe lucky to have time to endure?? hummm.... Doesn't matter you won.... Like Dungey did. HAHA!!!
Proof of what, Bill? That you never stop trying to make a point that vacillates so often and so far that by the end nobody knows what the F you're talking about? Nice political rant, btw ... wait ... this is RacerXonline, right? But since you brought it up, conservatives never lie, right? What's your point?
The Facts are RD picked up a lot of points in the situations we talked about and all you do is try to dicredit them. Thats all. ....Hardly a political rant just makeing a point about how some people can be seen on tape saying something and then turn and say i never said that, Same as discredting things NO?? I will say it ONE more time because you seem to be a little slow SEF, I THINK ALL (well 99%) of our GOV people SUCK!!! The REP's and The DEM'S... GOT it?? I just used the Barny frank story because I have NEVER seen one that bad. if it was a REP that did that I would be just as pissed!!! OK... Ya know where I stand on that now?? Again... the REP's and the DEM's SUCK right now. They are all in it for themselfs and are destroying this country with there bipartisan BS!!! Yes I have conservative thoughts on how things should be done but do not like many of the conservatives out there right now. What did U think of Barny doing that??
Nope. I'm not getting into politics here on a MOTO site. As for discrediting, isn't that what this laundry list of Pourcel's "bad luck" is all about? Dungey got lucky. He didn't deserve to win. Blah, blah, blah. All I'm doing is saying -- as yzsean did -- that all riders have various "good luck" and "bad luck" throughout the season. I don't know for sure why Pourcel's gate bounced up -- and neither do you! That's discrediting? (Not dicredit, btw.) Pourcel disobeyed a flag last year -- as did others -- and that's stated to be "bad luck" for Pourcel and "good luck" for Dungey. And then there's the Monster girl who blocked the start. More "bad luck/good luck." Maybe Pourcel got such a good start because so many other riders had to stop! If I'm trying to discredit anything, it's this nonsense that Dungey is just lucky and hasn't earned what he's done until now. If you're arguing with me, you're arguing with that. And if I'm "a little slow," as you say, I can't help but wonder what that makes you.
I dont know why everyones so heated over this luck thing. Can we all agree that Dungey is one of the fastest, most prepared racers out there. Can we all agree that some luck is involved in every race for every rider that doesnt crash or break down. I said it before, a rider falls in front of RC or his bike breaks and no perfect season. But we all agree that no one says RC was lucky to win his championships.
Purcel is winning more motos this year because he's not racing Dungey. Both great riders and we will see who has progressed more next year. Staying healthy and not crashing is skill and preparation, not luck. Defying expectaions is unbelievable for some.
BillC funny you bring up discrediting anything. All of this luck talk .......oh I see Sef brought this up already. You somehow interpret that I am saying there is no such thing as good or bad luck. All I'm doing is trying to point out that YOU have been trying to discredit anything Dungey does since about round 6 in SX. He doesn't pass quick enough or early enough, he gets all the good luck, his comp gets all the bad luck. Your point all along makes it sound like Dungey didn't deserve a SX title, and doesn't deserve the points lead in MX. And of course, you can't just stick to points at hand, you have to attack a person personally in some fashion..... I don't need to comment on some of the twisted logic you've put out in some of these posts for everyone to see, mostly because they've seen it.
BKR How many times do I have toi say, RD IS A GREAT RIDER, He has goten a LOT of breaks and NEVER have I said he did not deserve , I am NOT the only one saying, Cox'a and others from this site have said it as well as other posters, BUT u and others like to single me out and not the others witch is fine I can take it. As for I attack a person personally in some fashion, You read what people have said to me?? Look at some of the stuff bd and sef have called me, WAY worce than anything I have said. Either way again you have taken what I said to far. Twisted logic... They are facts thats all. You have not taken any of the examples I gave and showed how that thay are not GOOD luck you just go on a rant and try to make me look bad..Twisted logic...sounds like an insult to me but I though you don't like that..
Anyone who's tried to follow your arguments, BillC, recognizes the twists and turns and failure to stick to a point ... i.e. twisted. More of an observation that an insult (though certainly not a compliment). Listen to yourself: "I am NOT the only one saying" ... "u and others like to single me out" ... "You read what people have said to me?" ... "Look at some of the stuff bd and sef have called me, WAY worce (sic) than anything I have said." You really do sound like a child. And btw, I dare you to find ONE example where I "called you a name" unless it was a DIRECT RESPONSE to something you said to me. I purposely try to stick to the argument, but I'm a smartass, so when you can't control yourself and start throwing childish insults, I bust your balls. You seem to be one of those people who has trouble monitoring their own conversation … so expect more of the same.
BillC- The twisted logic was considering another concept you laid out elsewhere about 2008 results with Stewart/Alessi vs. 2006 results with Stewart/RC having some sort of impact on who should be beating Dungey in 2010. If other people make personal attacks against you, that isn't me, so stick to dealing with them. Your comment was something about something I did being a sign of low intelligence, for no reason other than to apparently annoy me, which it doesn't. My new personal favorite is that I "just go on and rant and try to make you look bad". You got me, my goal is to make you look bad. Am I hacking into your computer and making posts in your name? Go back and reread your first post above. I had nothing to do with that.....or did I?.....hmmmmm. For the record my 1st post was directed at the luck talk, not singling you out (as others were saying it as well). Lastly, if we were dealing with facts, there'd be no problem here. Most of this is conjecture and trying to spin things to diminish Dungey's results, which is what I was debating against. I am not trying to claim there is no such thing as luck, good or bad.
well if saying CP'S blown motor helped RD win it than i guess I am diminishing him... But IMO that is a streach.... You must think the blown motor had NOTHING to do with it then right?? Sef likes to point to the 2nd moto at southwick but RD had many bad moto's that year too. Unless SEF somehow knows CP did bad because he was pouting like he said. I don't thinks so. Sef..U make me laught when u say I can't control myself....Who is the one a few weeks ago who said I am done here I can't take it ( or something to that efect) ..Hmmm... I don't quite because someone does not agree with me because I am in control and don't let someone on the net says bother me. U also say "I dare you to find ONE example where I "called you a name" unless it was a DIRECT RESPONSE to something you said to me" well u just called me a child and many times called me an idiot and make fun of my gramer and spelling (same thing as name calling), and that is Quit a cop out to say you only do it in a DIRECT RESPONSE to something you said to me...well if you were not out of control you could stop your self.
This is funny as hell!! 3 days old and still going!!! BillC I am calling you a idiot. There I said it. I called you a name. Sorry, Sef and I have battled before, but when he makes a valid point, I will agree. Grow up dude. Man up and admit people don't always agree. Sef And I are on opposite ends on a lot of issues, (Moto and Politics) but even we can agree on some things! This is Hatfield and McCoy crap here!!! BKR is not the only one to call you out on this crap!
Hahaha, Hatfield-McCoy!!! Yer dog done ate my chicken an Ima fixin' to put a coupla ounces of buckshot in his hide! Sef said you SOUND LIKE a child, not that you ARE one. Are you really insulted by that BillC either way? I never made fun of your grammar or spelling, but when you bring it up and spell grammar wrong immediately......anyone can see the humor in that. It's all good BillC, we don't know what to do with a week off from the gruelling schedule of watching the nationals on TV.
NEVER called you an "idiot," Billy. Maybe it just feels that way when I point out your many illogical arguments. And yes, when you come out here and try to fashion yourself as some sort of "authority," I point out (in addition to the many problems with your arguments) that you can't write worth a ****. Gramer? LOL. Seriously, are you in such a big hurry to share your gibberish with us that you can't take a second to read what you typed? As for my emphasis on the second moto at Southwick, with people acting like Pourcel's DNF was "the reason Dungey won," I'm simply pointing out that when the riders lined up for moto two that day, Dungey led the series by a mere nine points with three motos to go. If CP was as "dominant" as these people seem to be saying, why did he languish outside the top ten (he is "superman," after all) while Dungey charged forward after the two tangled in the first corner. They were right there together, yet the champ-to-be took it to Frenchie and put himself in position to cruise to the title the following week. You call it lucky; I call it doing what needed to be done. That's all, folks.
Still we think RD has had some good luck on top of his talent and dedication. Take it the way you want and keep on living.