Ask Ping!
Friday, December 14, 2012 | 9:30 AM
ODI dates back to the 1980’s as the leader in grip manufacturing. Focusing primarily on the bmx and mountain bike industries through the 90’s and early 2000’s, ODI re-entered the motocross scene when they developed the patented lock-on grip system that eliminates wire and glue. Continuing to advance the way riders hold on to their bikes, ODI has worked closely with the teams they support such as Troy Lee Designs to create the product that is now being used by some of the top teams in the industry.
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PrintTo Ping,
I have a question regarding Tedder Motorsports. I was wondering how they seem to have received such good support the last couple years. They seem to have full factory backing from Kawasaki, Monster, Thor, etc....and they must have quite a budget as they have just hired Ivan Tedesco.
Obviously, anyone who qualifies for a national is extremely talented but how have these guys who are just barely cracking the top 20 gotten such good support for their team?
-Austin
(Littleton New Hampshire)
Number 72 and 9 will be under the Tedder rig this year.
Austin,
Fair question, Austin and I’m sure there are others who may wonder the same thing. While they certainly seem to be a factory supported race team from the outside I’m sure they are coming out of pocket significantly to keep their team running. In this economy, free bikes, parts and products are difficult to come by. Even for a team with the potential to win or podium it is a struggle to get support. And “Factory” help is all but non-existent for teams that don’t have a very close tie with a manufacturer. Even Jeff Ward’s team struggled to get the parts they wanted and they had Dean Wilson on their payroll! For a few weeks, anyway. So, what’s going on with Team Tedder? The father of the clan, Matt Tedder, is a multi-time vet class winner at Loretta Lynn. More impressive, monetarily anyway, is that he is owner of Hampton Tedder Electric, one of the largest firms in the power business in the southwest United States. And money may not buy happiness but by George it can buy a nice race team. And with a family of boys who love to race motorcycles that is exactly what Matt did. Now, I’m sure that Kawasaki gives him a break on bikes and they probably get some free gear from Thor, etc. But the fact is the largest contributor to Team Tedder is Tedder himself.
That said, they have some cool things in place. With Steve Lamson at the helm and Ivan Tedesco as their newest rider, Team Tedder is set to have a breakout year as a team. If Dakota can keep making improvements and Ivan has a solid year they could position themselves to be a very real, very serious race team with a plan to be in it for the long term. We need more of those and fewer teams calling it quits after a couple seasons.
PING
Ping
I have been reading your article for about a year now and look forward to it ever week. Your Halloween dog story is my favorite to date. My question is one dad to another. I have three boys (17, 15, and 9) that love motocross. We all ride and love it. When my two older boys were young we raced quite a bit in a Friday night series that was nothing but positive. Motocross has been for me as a dad a way of getting the family together to spend time and learn life lessons (work hard for a goal, sportsmanship, and family). With the economy the way it is I can barely keep the boys on decent bikes. They have more and more begun to work and buy their own equipment but we still can’t afford to regularly drop $350.00 a weekend to race and keep the bikes race ready. I even went back to school at 39 to try and change my financial status but it is slow going. I flag at a local track to trade for track time and do suspension servicing on the side to make a little extra. I realize that time spent together is the important thing but for my wife, hearing stories about a trail ride or practice day do nothing for her. She loves to be at the races and involved also. My question is, in your opinion, is it better to do motocross halfway or give it up and find something else that we can do together that I can afford? I do believe that my finances will improve but my oldest is gone in a year and a half.
P.S I know my punctuation is atrocious and you are thinking what did he go back to school for…ditch digging? Cut me some slack I am working on it.
Jeff
Minnesota
You should be a Vikings fan… definitely Vikings.
Dear Jeff,
It sounds like you need to get the family gathered around a table and have an honest discussion about what they want to do. If they love motocross THAT much then there are some cheaper ways to stay involved. Maybe they would rather have the extra money and you can all take up tennis or hockey or whatever else blows your Viking hat back up there in Minnes-Oh-da. Maybe you could try some other sports during the winter and see if anything sticks. I can’t tell you anything about those sports but if they want to keep dirt biking you need to look into some two-strokes. You can rebuild the engines yourself [or with your boys help] and still have a great time at the track together while spending much less cash. I admire a guy who has the balls to go back to school at your age to improve your family’s future; it isn’t easy. I know that. It sounds like you are a great dad and I hope you guys can make it work.
PING
Hey Ping,
As a new father I had a question I've wondered for years and I figured you would know the answer being a former rider AND team manager. I know Mitch, Decoster, LaRocco, etc. like to win, but what are the feelings they have when a young man who has dreamed his whole life of winning a race and/or a championship finally gets his first? Do you think it is akin to the pride you feel when your own children accomplish something? Payton seems like the type who would have that type of pride and happiness for his riders and not just be happy for himself.
Ron
Aside from the stickiness this has to feel great. Mitch has done this a lot.
During my two years as manager of the TLD team I learned why guys like DeCoster and LaRocco keep doing it. There is nothing like the feeling of sitting on the starting line in Angels Stadium or pulling a holeshot at a National or winning a race or a moto. Nothing. I have two kids and their births were like knitting a scarf compared to winning the season opener in Anaheim. Of course I’m only talking about the visceral, adrenaline-infused emotion of the moment, not the grand-scheme significance. There goes my father of the year award, right?
My point is, being involved with a team at that level is the next best thing to being on the bike yourself. I got to work with our young riders quite a bit and make decisions about bike development and really steer the direction of the team. And when you get results after the work you put in it is a great feeling. I’ll never forget the San Diego supercross when Cole Seely and Wil Hahn finished second and third. It wasn’t a win but it was Seely’s first podium finish and a big boost for the team. I have a picture of the whole team up on the podium and it’s one that I’ll always remember. The feeling of helping Ben Townley try to resurrect his career was something that only a person who has tried to come back from multiple injuries will understand. So to see him win a USGP moto, finish on the podium several times in the Nationals and come within a half a lap of winning in RedBud was an awesome feeling. I can’t imagine how great it feels for Mitch and Roger and Mike to steer all these kids into winning titles. I guess the fact that they are all still doing it after all these years means it’s pretty great.
PING
Have a question for Ping? Send him an email at [email protected]
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I've been a lifelong Vikings fan, but, I'm even more of one now.
It's really cool to see a guy use mostly his own money to start a team. It means he is doing it for all the right reasons. On the other hand, if he is selling electricity (I'm guessing that's what a power firm is), it's disturbing to see that much money can be made off something that nowadays is considered essential to live. If you don't think it is essential ask people in NY/NJ if it is.
Unless you want to be a pro, stop wasting money racing and all of your riding buddies get together and buy a place to put your own track. You get 5-6 guys that normally race and you would be surprised at how nice of a track you can make. I realize not everyone has that option but, if you can do it you will ride more for less. When you do race you'll be ready more than ever.
It saddens me to see a familly going through financial destruction to race when
we have already solved the problem. Two strokes! Yes the 250 4 stroke is a pleasure to ride but it is to expensive to own. And the only reason a 450 is managable for us normal people(who incidently pay full price)is because they have modified the tracks to suit these power monsters. It is time for the mx cosumer to set the pace for even profesional racing. For to long we have counted on the factorys. That worked so well they had nothing more to add to the machine so they changed machines. If you paid $1000 for a claped out 2 stroke put $2000 into it you would have a bike that was as good as any 250 ever made.And it would last 4 years.
@Firstondirt--you are correct sir.. I rebuilt my own 2-stroke myself, and having never done it before.. It wasnt very difficult either.. For 2000 bucks you can almost completely rebuild the entire bike.. The engine parts cost m,e less than 350 bucks for the total rebuild.. That leaves over 1600 for the rest of the bike.. Suspension, brakes, bars, plastic if you want..seat, whatever.. Or you could spend 3000 on a used 4-stroke ready to bomb, and another 1500 for the engine rebuild.. Myself I would go the 2-stroke route. And they are more fun to ride..My son has been riding mine after being a 4-stroke die-hard, he is realizing how fun and fast the bike is if you ride it correctly..
I agree that four strokes are hurting our sport at the recreational level. I have ridden motocross since I was six years old and I didn't start racing until I was twelve because I had to work for my expenses which taught me a lot. I dropped out of the racing game a couple of years ago because I simply could not afford to maintain my 250f at a competitive level. I recently bought a 2004 KX250 two stroke and stripped it down to a bare frame to build it from scratch. After powder coating the frame and replacing every single part except the ignition I have less money invested than my buddy does in the motor of his 2010 250f. He has to rebuild his motor twice a year and I have a sweet factory two stroke that starts on the first kick every time which is more than I can say about a 45hp 250f!
Love me some "Ask Ping" every Friday.
For clarification, Tedder Electric is an Electrical contractor. They work primarily with utility providers in HV applications.
Jeff out of MN...you Sir, are a man's man. As one who has ridden & raced for 40 years, stories like this really make you think.
Not only about our economy being intentionally trashed by a Marxist/Socialist Admin, but look at our beloved sport people!
We are losing more land & more tracks EVERY year due to??????? Yep, 4-strokes. The noise is a significant factor. AMA had an article about 3 years ago indicating the noise levels on comparisons between 2-T & 4-T. It was truly stunning. Costs? Ummmm, yeah. Drop a rod on a 250 2-T? W-O-R-S-T case: $ 750.
Drop a valve TDC on a 250/450F? $ 2500...in parts.
And I might add, I holeshot 450's on a very regular basis on my trusty RM.
Got your own fav shop & ask them how their sales are. If it wasn't for ATV & UTV's for the past 3+ years...our industry would be done. Why? Refer to above
When we continually lose places to ride, and it (potentially) costs an additional $2k-$3k on top of an $ 8.5k scoot to go "play"...
When...and I emphasize...when, are the manufacturers going to realize this!
Hope everyone has a good weekend.
While 450s now can approach the power of the big 5honey I have, they will never approach the ground shreding, eye popping, screaming at the top of your lungs acceleration explosion that only a 60hp, 230lb bike can give. If you have the beans, talking to Service Honda to get your new best friend is a life changing experience. Sooner or later, everyone will be a vet racer, and you might as well grab your thrill ride and live the dream like I did.
Stop drinking the 4 stroke kool aid!
Misoheye- Please join hands with Sean Penn and head down to Venezuela. that's the country, run by a dictator, Hugo Chavez, that's stripped the ownership of businesses that "have been too successful." You'll also want to note that besides the oil industry, which is just a dumb luck natural resource bounty for the country, they lead in nothing, not even health care which is why Hugo keeps have to go to Cuba(!) for treatment.
Congratulations to the Tedders. I'm sure he took big risks in starting his business and I'm really glad that they chose to spend their rewards chasing a motocross dream.
As for 2/4 strokes, I think even Ping is coming back to 2 strokes. The bottom line is that 99% of all riders are here for the fun and "fun" includes lower noise, less maintenance, and lower cost.
Ooooooooo. . . @rg807. Your lack of knowledge and contact with the oil/gas industry is glaringly evident. Please refrain from commenting on the subject and let's keep it reeled in to moto here.
OMG, Ping your "knitting a sweater" line killed me. That was hilarious. Years ago I raced the Lake Whitney event in the SR and Vet classes. Let me set the stage, I make good money and can have most anything I need on a dirt bike and vehicle etc (not tooting, just hard worker/blessed). Once we get settled into the pits, and the first wave of races is over, I take notice of who whipped my ass in the events and I was going to mosey around and take a look at what I might be missing. I stumbled over to the Tedder pits and knew I was out classed and out financed by along shot. His pit vehicle was not just a Rhino back then, but a limo Rhino. My GMC and featherlite trailer could of fit in his back compartment of their RV. I seen the Tedder's at other big events and finally was forced to just google this dude and see what he really did for a living (maybe I would find I needed to do a career change). Well they are huge like Ping stated. They are the real deal and I agree with Ping that alot of their backing is from their own wallet. I can put any sticker on my bike and say Honda helps me out when they do squat for me. Good businessman like Matt would do the same even if Kawi only helps them minimally. Later on down the road, he will likely get more and more support from them. And if they never recieve support, Team Tedder gets a great tax write-off and has a kick-ass time doing what they love to do. Let's face it, if most of us on this site won a huge lottery...I'd be for getting a team going and would be interviewing Ping for the dirty boot cleaning position and might let him also be the sweaty sock remover after each moto (would have to make sure he was qualifed though) . Keep the humor comin, Ping...
baffled- Actually I'm quite knowledgeable about the oil and gas industry. Furthermore, I'm very knowledgeable about economics (my degree) and finance as well as political systems.
But thanks for your fact-less opinion and lecture about what I should be posting.
rg807- I thought you were spot on but my o&g experience might be limited to just 30yrs + in the industry and a petroleum engineering degree to back it up.Don't let this small talk get you down...thanks for the post.
@eagle1..Thanks for the clarification. Seemed like he was a CEO of a actual power company. Definitely was not trying to make him look bad.
@rg807....Yeah right, sure you are very knowledgeable. Your way of base response to what I said tells it all. Pumping gas doesn't make you an oil insider or give you a economic degree. If dumb was dirt you would have the nicest track in the world.
@BigUgly - well said. I love my Service Honda and can't recommend that shop highly enough. Love my 500AF. Glad that AJ is a mad scientist and that Service Honda has been able to make a business out of it.
I recently had a chance to ride with friends and tried a '13 KTM350, a '12 Dungey Replica, and a '13 KX450. All were fun to ride, but not as much fun for me as my AF. While I did appreciate the lighter weight of the 350, I'd go find a 250 2-T before I spent big $ on any of the new 4-Ts.
For us weekend warriors, it is all about the fun per $. The cost of 4-T tech just makes it uncompetitive in the fun/$ ratio.
I feel your pain Jeff from Minnesota...I just started an apprenticeship last year at age 39 myself that involves a LOT of schooling. Kudos & good luck to you!!
"dumb luck natural resource bounty for the country"
as a fellow petroleum engineer, I am disappointed that you would agree to that, Mr. dash. You, of all people here, have declared yourself to be most knowledgeable on the matter of how much work takes place before the spud date. Far from dumb luck. Unless you are an old wildcatter. Your 30 years has probably given you some experience in that arena, so maybe that is what you were referring to.
and rg807-my post was meant in no way to disagree with your initial comment/observation/overarching theme. i completely agree with that. the o&g comment just seemed counter-intuitive to that point.
It's nice to see teams like Team Tedder in the sport that defies all financial logic & does it purely for the love of the sport. Teams like that are the ones I like to root for!
i retract all previous statements on the basis that i made it all up and sound like an idiot. apologies
Ok, we all know how much crap we've heard on 2-strokes, right???
* Too slow
* Not enough HP to compete with the "a-l-m-i-g-h-t-y" 4-strokes
* Etc, etc, etc
Please allow me to set the stage...
Thunder Valley, 6/3/12, elevation of 6,182 with the steepest start in the AMA Outdoor series. (Me & my TX Crew help with the outdoor Nat'l every year)
My little 'ole '06 RM w/a 1-mil motor & some head work & has AT LEAST 60 hours on this top end. I literally changed the main from a 165 to a 155 & headed to Denver. Didn't even change the pilot.
Lined up with JJ's gorgeous FI GYTR highly-modded 2010 YZF with CM & his YZF.
Mr Bankhead dropped a rock and...well????? Enjoy!
DISCLOSURE: No doubt JJ could've got around me once out of the first turn. He was riding VERY good Sunday. So I sincerely appreciate him entertaining a slow, old man.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXhyMqkm2eE
Bless all of you!!! Finally.
-a firm two stroke supporter
A Yamaha 4 stroke with proper maintenance (oil ,air filter as the valves RARELY need adjusting on YZ's) and not DEAD reved every single jump all day will go a season with NO repairs maybe 2 with a piston and zero other problems..the other brands not so much (i own an RMZ and work on all of them every day.).....2 strokes are great but the 4 stroke is NOT going away and DOES need to be QUIETER by a mile most accessory pipes are louder than stock so that parts on YOU. I've owned every 2 stroke from early Husky's and CZ's to modern YZ 250's and you'll have to pry my RMZ 450 out of my cold dead hands....(and i've owned 400 250 and 450 yamahas and NEVER dropped a valve or suffered any catastophic failures...if you endlessly dead rev you pay my rent.....simple....alot of 4 stroke expense is caused by operator error...believe it. The 2 stroke is cheaper to operate there is no doubt as it takes ABUSE much MUCH better. RG807 I have friends that play ride 02 450 hondas that have never been abused or apart....it depends on the usage and the maintenance....When someone builds a e-start 400+ injected 2 stoke in a modern chassis i'll be there. Before you say it a 300 ain't a 400+...been there done that.
hope bikes go electric...I know you think junk,slow, stuiped idea, ( you thought the same about 4strokes in the 90's)
low noise,much cheeper to maintain,indoor tracks....
@tonewall...I agree that 4-strokes will last if just taken care of. I think a 2-stroke will last longer if it isn't kept up as well. I don't know why more guys don't learn how to work on them. They really aren't that scary. For me the cost of 2 vs 4 works out to about even in the end.
@tonewall, I agree that a 4-stroke will last a good amount of time if properly maintained.. Just like any other engine.. But the maintenence cost are much higher.... I own 2-strokes and 4-strokes.. The 2-stroke will be cheaper because anyone with a small amount of mechanical ability can repair then.. Without specialty tools also.. And the initial cost of the 4-strokes and their continued development are outrages.. Give me 2-strokes all day long..
Ahhhhh yes. More blathering on about 2 strokes. Cheaper to maintain, yes. So tell you what to all the whiners out there. You think 2 strokes are so great and you want to save money, then BUY ONE. Now, you need to accept the fact that you are going to get OWNED by the 4-stroke riders you are riding against (unless you are MUCH better than them). But, if you are all about saving money, then that is your answer.
The costs of racing (ANY kind of racing) are always driven by people's desire to go faster. You can ALWAYS throw more money at a bike, regardless of what kind of engine it has, and it will be better in some respect (engine, suspension, reduced weight, etc., etc.)
So, people can easily reduce their costs by going with lesser equipment. You want to go racing and have fun - it doesn't have to cost a fortune if you buy a 2-stroke, do the work yourself, etc. But it you want to be at the pointy end of the field, as with ANY kind of racing, then it will cost you.
So make up your mind - race for fun, have mediocre results for little $$$, or spend mega-$$$ and increase your chances tenfold. BUT, once you have made your decision, no whining about it.
Eagle 1, I'd love me some 2014 CR250R. Please email Mr. Honda your excellent rhetorical argument. Thank you.
@willfree....Mr Honda is quite happy selling you over-revers valve train (and cases and cranks and heads etc etc....)parts since 02.......get used to the hum of electric motors.....if they can average over a hundred mph at the isle of MEN... their comin'..like it or not.
I would go back to a two stroke, but I can't find a good used one and the new ones are too expensive and hard to come by also.
And some racing orgs are making it expensive to race. I spent so much money racing and now I have to pay to get my championship stuff I earned.
Lots of people are leaving MX for alternatives. J-Days are something new that's people talk good about.
@Graciousone--why would I get "OWNED" as you put it, by the 4-stroke riders?? I can race a 250 2-stroke in the 250 class as an amatuer, against 250 4-strokes.. I think its a pretty equal plane.. The 4-strokers get a little better bite out of a corner, but I have more top end and a lighter feeling bike I cna move around a whole lot easier.. My son has raced both his 4-stroke and my 2-stroke, with equal success on both. Racing the 2-stroke is absolutely no handicap.. And it makes him a better rider because he cant be lazy on it.. I t makes him more aggresive as a racer.. And play riding is NO COMPARISON, its the 2-stroke all the way..
Many good comments here, again. Really like the Ask Ping column. In conclusion of what I have read here today, looks like the old saying "Different strokes, for different folks" applies. However, it looks like the two strokes are winning, per this blog, by a good margin!
Listen closely to Stewart's comments at the end of this video. He is right.
http://js7.com/2011/09/stewarts-new-ride/
Blew up yz250f, spent $700 on rebuild, got three hours and locked it up. Afraid to look this time....buying yz250 and callin it a day. I can do 6 top ends for that $700
Stewart is rite. if you are not a top "pro" what does it matter...my son will beat many 250f's down with a 250 2stroker.
@the realmofo:
The 4-strokes are superior race machines in the majority of circumstances. In what I thought was a fantastic article, another leading motocross magazine raced a 250F and a 250 smoker at a variety of tracks, and on the majority of them, riders (of all different skill levels) turned better lap times on the 250 thumper, even though it was down EASILY 10 horse on the smoker. That is why I said that you would be owned by a thumper rider of similar skill level.
But, since you are so confident that you can be competitive on your weed eater, and they're so much cheaper, then I guess you can stick with it and feel sorry for all the saps on their 4-strokes.
@GraciousOne--"weed-eater"?? Reallly?? Are you actually biased against a dirt bike?? How childish was that?? I just point out that I really enjoy my 2-stroke, so does my son, so what.. I enjoy all dirt bikes and all people who ride, no matter what.. Its obvious you dont and thionk you and your ride are superior.. Nice attitude... I do feel that the cost of 4-strokes are turning our sport into a yuppie sport full of spoiled children, and you kinda acted like one there.. Just read an new article were a KTM 450 and 350 4-strokes were up against a 250 KTM 2-stroke.. And the KTM 450 was over $9000 bucks... The 250 2-stroke was $7000// There was an almost $2500 dollar difference.. And the 4-stroke cost a ton more to maintain.. That sums it up right there....I ride to have fun, and the cheaper the bike is to own and ride, the more fun I have..
They way I ride a 450 it is not expensive to maintain. I have spent less on my 450 than I did on my 250 two strokes. I raced it stock. I didn't have to by V force reeds and a new pipe. No race fuel. I don't beat on it because I can't. I change the oil. I would never buy a new one though because the price has gone way up. But I'm not spending $7000 + on a new two stroke either. They are all too expensive now.
4 strokes have changed the way tracks form up also. When I was last racing a 250 2S I had a hard time because the tracks I race get rough and the lines and everything were made by 4 stokes. And the other people on 450s would mess me up in corners but then just pull me on straights. The first time I rode a 450 I couldn't believe I was beating people that were on them.
A 450 4-stroke is going to be a faster race machine, it should be it has 200 more cc's than the 2-stroke.. They build 2-strokes with only 200 cc's ..... It will pull better and stronger with such a larger engine.. the AMA had to give the 4-stroke that much of an advantage so it could compete with the 2-stroke..
Some advice Please dont hate us... dont buy a pipe and aftermarket reeds for your 2-stroke either, it will be just as cheap... You dont ever have to modify a bike if you dont want to.. I bought a new exhaust for my sons 4-stroke...Plus some other mods also, its no different than modifying a 2-stroke, just more expensive, even the exhaust is more expensive..And I agree, ALL new bikes are way too expensive..I buy used now also..