by Davey Coombs
250 Words: RedBud
Monday, July 9, 2012 | 5:10 PM
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PrintWe have to start with a necessary double name drop: On the podium during the first 250 moto at RedBud were Jeff Stanton and Chad Reed, watching the second turn as GEICO Honda's Justin Barcia came full-throttle into the corner on the third lap, manipulating his clutch more than his throttle, his CRF250R absolutely screaming for mercy. Right behind him was Monster Energy/Pro Circuit Kawasaki's Blake Baggett, going maybe even faster, but also a little wider, the two of them blasting out of the corner and around the next bend in the blink of an eye. Stanton and Reed, both living legends, just looked at each other and laughed.
“It's just incredible how fast these kids are going,” Stanton told me as he watched the race unfold. “They are just going so fast now.” This from a six-time champion!
Baggett and Barcia would of course rule the day at RedBud, especially Blake, who again went 1-1 and retained the red plate. And third would ride Eli Tomac, who already has two national wins in six tries so far, with Baggett holding three and Barcia one.
The trio has seemingly begun to break away from the Red Bull KTMs of Ken Roczen and Marvin Musquin. K-Roc just didn't have his best stuff in the second moto, and Marvin lost third overall at the end when Tomac caught and passed him late. The German and the Frenchman have the speed of the leaders, but not the whole way. In fact, Roczen couldn't get past the third member of the GEICO Honda team, Wil Hahn, and ended up sixth in the second moto—his worst outing in twelve motos to date.
What gives? Are the kids in America just plain faster than the kids from Europe? In my personal opinion, not necessarily. But their level of intensity is much higher from start to finish. Having spoken to Reed after the race, I think he agrees. Overseas, young riders from all over Europe don't get together that often, whereas in the States we have Loretta Lynn's, the World Mini GP, the NMA Grand Nationals, the Mini Os, Ponca City, Texas, etc. Baggett and friends know each other well enough to know what they need to do to win in a 30-minute moto, and that's not only to pin it from start to finish, but also to be able to drop the hammer when the time comes to go harder, go faster, be meaner... It took Reed a couple of years to find that cadence, just as it did Jean-Michel Bayle. But once they had it, they had the chops to win major championships here (both won the AMA Supercross title in their third season in America).
Marvin Musquin had arguably one of the best rides of his year at RedBud. But it still wasn't enough to grab a podium position.
Simon Cudby photo
It's a steep learning curve, and while Roczen seemed to lose a step this week, Musquin looked his best yet. Once both learn this new way of racecraft—“win or perish,” to quote Jeff Emig quoting Winston Churchill (yes, another double name drop)—then we're going to see even more incredible action in this class.
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Yes, these guys are really going fast!!! Unreal how they are killing it these days!
Love watching the 250 because you never know what is going to transpire, and there's always some great racing going on!
EUROMIKE??? You out there?? LOL
It really is amazing how fast they are. I cant even imagine what it would be like to go their speed. I mean they smoke great riders too. For instance a fast guy at my close track BD has Lowell Spangler. He fricken rips, throws his bike flat and triples things on 250s that the local A 450 guys wont even consider. its like "Ok where exactly is this guy losing 7 seconds a lap to someone like Barcia". IDK all I know is theyre freakin sick
Enjoyed watching the 1st 250 moto Saturday. Those guys just rip! No one wicks it up like Baggett. That kid is in a league of his own and Barcia is a better person for admitting he had nothing for Blake. Good racing guys.
I agree with Kawi567, it is amazing seeing some local talent that is un-freakin-belieavable (in Texas we have guys like Sean Hackley) that rip around tracks wide open. But they can't hang with the lead pack in the Nats ... even though you could swear that there is no way that anyone could possible go any faster when you see them locally.
Kawi567,
"Ok where exactly is this guy losing 7 seconds a lap to someone like Barcia"
My guess is it's gotta be the corner speed. The elite enter and exit corners like they aren't even there. Not to say your local bad ass doesn't rip around them, just the top echelon of the sport really fly though the turns. Many have noted corner speed is the main difference between RV RD CR JS & TC and the rest of the pros.
I agree completely about the local riders. I was at the first national at Millville, after racing there many time myself. I thought it would be hard for anyone to go faster than the guys winning A (Expert) class, but when the big boys came out for practice, most who had never been there before, by the second or third lap, they were blasting the sand wash way faster than anyone I had ever seen. How hard they would go into corners, especially at the bottom of big hills, was (and still is) hard to comprehend.
All of the "Big 4" (5 with Mushin?) have such different styles, but the end result is amazing speed.
I'm STILL guessing Roczen has a win in him this season (at least moto, if not o/a). Red Bud, Freestone, these locales are friggin' HOT! (and we have a heat wave going on this summer to add to the mix). NOTHING can prepare a euro for that kind of heat / humidity.
About the intensity of the U.S. riders, guys like Alessi, Villopoto, Milsaps and Grant are bitter rivals before they have even seen their first pro moto gate drop. They know things about their competition that others are not aware of.
This is Roczen's first trip to these tracks (Musquin too, for the most part) whereas Barcia, Baggett, Tomac, etc all have multiple trips to these areas, knowledge & experience of the weather / climate and the previously mentioned experience with each other.
All that said, Roczen is getting beat straight-up by faster riders AT THIS POINT. The consistency shown by these riders is unusual for the class and that's not making it easier on anyone. 125 /250F class has always been a crap shoot and the fat lady isn't even in the building yet. We're only halfway through the season and there's a whole lot of racing left.
It's nice to have so many talented racers on one gate. Now if Suzuki and Yamaha can step up their 250F programs, we'll have a "Golden Era" of racing all over again! Yea us!
Some really great discussion and observations with the comments. The 250 riders are just tearing up the place and if I am not mistaken, so far at almost all the nationals, the top four 250 guys would be right behind Dungey and neck and neck with Allesi for 2nd if the all raced together.
One thing that is also apparent and noted above, is that the Yamaha and Suzuki camp's are indeed in shambles at the moment (jury is still out on Stewart if he has the long term or intermediate heart for it anymore)..... Whomever designed the backwards engine, etc.... is most likely already gone, or looking for a job right about now.
The 250 class has been excellent since the opening week. Although one rider has a lead, the season is not yet over ....
And when the current 250 riders move up to the 450s, fans could witness the best 450 class ever ....
The 250 are indeed the "The Show" !! As injures have decimated the 450's, the aggression and intensity of the 250's Frantic Five, have taken it from a support class to the class to watch. How this class has remained healthy while pushing the limits of their bikes and bodies is truly amazing and a credit to each rider.
Baggett has the big edge in the C&C department right now, as he continues to carry the red plate. With half the season still in front of them and all that talent, there is no reason for Barcia or Tomac to panic, same for the Euro Duo of Musquin and Roczen, how ever they have got to be wondering what it will take to keep a lead when Blazing Blake is blistering the track behind them.
The championship pressure will be building over the next couple weeks and it will be interesting to see who handles it, steps it up and who feels it, flounders trying to cope with it. No matter who your favorite rider is, we all need to appreciate the work these kids are putting in as we are seeing some thing very special this season in the Great Outdoors!!
@ BD25 SUP!!!!!
Cant kill the cat !!!!!!!!! new handle
motomofobro wrote:1:37pm July 8, 2012
you might ask some clarification from preston he may have seen it
No some clown motomofobro challenged me and family,ancestry,and such yesterday and I stuck my d#ck in his a$$ . Its all been edited unless some happen to see before taken off . The guy was an obivious imposter with only 6 postings to his credit under that lame handle, believe me I know who it is...... He has at least 5 handles on here, I think up to 7.. I will have him for lunch some day, I'll bet you my 1976 ow27 Hannah front number plate on that. be intouch, I'll use my cat pic or my dos equis beer interesting man pic so you know its me,I also give you clues on where I post a note it will not be the Obvious column that people read. to stay out of the cross fire............Good day. I was still looking to make a change to maybe make millville but since my little bout before the 4th I cant,have to keep low...........Hard to type only left handed....Later
@ 9lives-Mr-Mx, I'm sorry it had to come to that. I was wondering what the hubbub was about. I don't know of whom you mentioned but, I don't recall ever seeing a nasty posting from you about anything, ever.
It's a shame this site has so many foul-mouthed children on it nowadays........and that the site managers let them run amok.
When the Parents don't do their job and neither do the authorities, this is what you get.
Well, best of all to you and keep fighting the good fight.
I understand sir and will look for your posts, as you have my respect, that wont change! Heal as fast as Hannah rode that OW..till next till ...Moto on!!!
@ carlsbad I usually keep a log on my dialog for this site,It has been used against myself in the past with these punks. This time I was not quick enough to copy that post,but here is a tip for future you can put your screen name up in right hand corner were the search tab magnifier is, use your screen name and a few short few with a space here or there and hit enter it is a quick look up. Basically I have had a long standing fued with ALLI Sports on some things that I have had particular interest in myself towards Motocross, I have a lot of friends,family,connections all around the sport, almost 50yrs my dad almost 70 yrs some well I have burnt my own bridges lets say now and then, but I allway defend myself and others that truely stand for what is right over what's some might say "just make it past the smell test" . I'm not that guy........ I work over everyone,and everything to be spot on on all fronts,that my friend is my down fall. I will be first to admit my short comings,and belive me I'm far from perfect,dont know anyone that is.
Dont really want to get into it, I can always get on this site know matter what,but you will see post just up and disappear into the thin air,they put on what they want "Its there show" remember!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It just seems on the attack front it has always been a one way street. There are always a few that walk thru life without even a scratch........ I could mention some names but I'll just refrain from my thoughts its best that way.Good luck to you also!!!!!!!!
@ BD25
Same back at ya pleasure was all mine!!!!!!!! We got some bennifical rain tonight.
tommorrow I think 99 degress we had 13 in a row over 103 degrees, highest was 109 here and 112 at in-laws house . I had my water on the yard 8 days out of 8 last week when I was at my in-laws. I bet that bill will be outragously high for the month. City water-sewer. Later!!!!!!!!!!! cat said HI
Whoops sorry ...i thought this was a moto site......
@Osteo ... Although there will probably be some disagreements from what seems to be the minority of fans who follow the 250 class, of course it can be argued that Baggett appears to have a slight edge .... But is it over? I hope not!
BillC, thats hilarious, although I like Roczen & Musquins style, it's their 1st year & they are racing the best in the sport who have raced these tracks before, thats an advantage there, I beleive Roczen will be battling for wins alot more next year, he has a Euro title & I watched him beat all the 250's at Nations 2010 at Lakewood, he passed Townley & Short on their 450's one moto, only to be passed back, but the kid was rippin' on it, he pulled away from Wilson too, he'll be there next year, hopefully with Wilson & everybody healthy, it's Baggett's turn to win a championship!
1990 was Bayle's first full season in the US: he finished second to Stanton in the SX, just 7 points short, while in the 125 National he was first with a huge gap on the second rider in the standings when he broke his arm. He definitely was in a class of his own, in my opinion the most talented motorcycle rider.
I excpected more from Musquin, I really thought he could be a real threat this year. Anyway, against Bagget there is not much to do this year, I think just Barcia can fight him till the end, or almost.
Barcia and Wilson will be smoking the Dung next year.
@BillC- no kidding, right? Mike, come out of hiding! Tell us how fast the euro's are! (no disrespect to anyone. Just pickin' on Mike, cuz he has it comin'!)lol Where are you now?
musquin is riding with a broken hand, he will be better,
Im glad people are understanding how fast these kids are. Milville on national day isnt even the same track as a local race.. and our local kids are so amazing. I usedto watch teddy maier at milville and swear he would get a top 10, yet he couldnt even qualify. Our local jendro was amazing fast, but i have to think mentally on national day something changes and these guys dont go as fast. Craig decker conversely did not look fast at all 6 or 8 years ago, yet my jaw dropped as he ran down trey canard both motos on saturday. So cool
living in colorado, I don't see alot of top guys roll through the local tracks (and thunder valley is the most expensive of them all so I don't go there often) but when the nationals were here this year, Megan Rutledge, who won hangtown second moto, rolled in to a thursday prep day. I could keep up with her for about a lap on my WR450 (it's what I got lol) but she was quick. Looked up lap times and the top women are 15 to 20 seconds slower a lap than the top guys! I agree it has to be corner speed and having the balls to hold it wide open the places that these guys do... probably helps to be riding several times a week rather than once a week like us weekend warriors
There are no reasons for an occasional rider being super fast it just happens. How often does a JS or RC come alone? Or how about RV and RD? Obviously Baggett has speed on everyone in the 250s when he wants to go. Like Emigh says he is so effecient, because he looks like he is in a rocker just relaxed and flying. Last year he buried people but tailed off at the end and that same speed is flashing again this year. The really fast guy is the one thats going to beat you down on the worse possible track in the worse conditons. Anyone can go fast on a smooth nothing track but look what happens when its tough. For years everyone learned the tracks, trained to the max, knew every thing there was to know about RC but they never got close to beating him. Baggett is a phenom and sits alone at the top right now. When Mitch says all he needs to do is get off the line in 5th that tells the whole story.
If Duram and Wilson were in the mix, we'd have a real freight train!
Let's all face it, these guys are good ! The top ten in the 250's would smoke everyone at our local tracks by half a lap. To think in the next couple of years the 250 guys will be invading the 450 class. Health of the riders aside, the 450 will be even crazier to watch then.