Ask Ping!
Friday, July 29, 2011 | 8:00 AM
ODI dates back to the 1980’s as the leader in grip manufacturing. Focusing primarily on the bmx and mountain bike industries through the 90’s and early 2000’s, ODI re-entered the motocross scene when they developed the patented lock-on grip system that eliminates wire and glue. Continuing to advance the way riders hold on to their bikes, ODI has worked closely with the teams they support such as Troy Lee Designs to create the product that is now being used by some of the top teams in the industry.
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Hi Ping,
I have two under-21-year-old males working for me. While they have intelligence, they are as dumb as rocks; late, hungover, etc. Their hormones seem to remove all common sense. They drive me nuts sometimes. How did you or Mitch Payton deal with the same aged riders? I would guess that mini rider process removes some of this but you must have to deal with it sometimes. (Like when that chick stole your bike + bed).
Thx, MM
As a group, kids are dumb. But, you know, adults aren’t exactly pegging the brain-o-meter these days either. Common sense, common courtesy and common decency are just not that common anymore. But kids are a special kind of stupid. Flooded with testosterone/estrogen and plagued with an underdeveloped brain, the youth of today will make you shake your head faster than watching your wife try to parallel park a car. Sorry, babe, but you looked like Austin Powers stuck in that hallway.
But you can’t be that hard on kids when they act like idiots because, guess what? You used to be that idiot. Even if you don’t remember it, someone, somewhere has a story about you as a kid when your brain was stuck on stupid. So, I guess what I’m saying is try to be patient. I dealt with some young kids as a team manager and Mitch absolutely loved it. He would laugh at me any time I would vent to him about their shenanigans because, apparently, I pulled the same stuff when I rode for him. See what I mean… we’ve all been there.
PING
Hey Ping,
I just got done watching your Kawi 250F video and why is it that you wear a neck brace sometimes? I`m a big fan of yours and your style, but when anyone wears one I think their style goes out the window. I say you should ditch it for good. Please don’t rip me a new one for my thoughts, but I’m just wondering what you were thinking since you don’t seem to wear one all of the time. Thanks and God Bless. Hope school is going well for you.
Hey, I've got a package for, huh?... what the hell?
I’m not going to rip on you because this is actually a great question. Why don’t more riders wear neck protection and, for that matter, chest protectors? I know there is much speculation about the effectiveness of the Leatt, Alpinestars and other neck braces and that has led some to stop wearing them. This is a sensitive subject and everyone has to make his own call on it. For two years I wore both brands at different times and sometimes I didn’t wear either. Of course it was most comfortable not to wear either, it’s a lot like swimming naked in your pool in that way. But after a big crash that leaves your neck sore, or a visit from the UPS guy while you’re swimming with your rudder out, you realize that you need to rethink your neck protection/skinny dipping practice. After a lot of back-and-forth, I am going to wear a neck brace 100 percent of the time from here on out. For that matter, I’ve finally figured out a chest protector (TLD’s new under-protector) that works perfectly in conjunction with it and I’m wearing that as well.
The problem here is two-fold: First, it simply feels more comfortable to just wear a jersey. And second, it doesn’t “look as cool” to have a chest protector and neck brace on. At least, that’s the general perception. But you know what really doesn’t look or feel cool? Halo bolts in your head from a broken neck. How pissed would you be if you injured your neck because you weren’t wearing a brace, knowing that you had one sitting in your garage? I couldn’t live with that. And with all your major organs sitting in your chest and abdomen it seems really stupid NOT to wear a chest protector. Yeah, I’m getting older and definitely giving this stuff more thought than I used to; my priorities are much different than they were when I was 20. So, I apologize if my style doesn’t look as good as it once did, but I want to be able to get up from a crash and ride another day. I hope you’ll still be a fan.
PING
Dear Mr. Pingree,
You guys used to love watching Lance Armstrong and 'Le Tour' when he was winning. Do you still watch and take pride now it's known that he was just as much a cheat as all the others? I hear some legal eagle over there has his sights on Lance big time.
Best regards,
Rob
That sport is in a sad state, isn’t it? You don’t want to believe it but the truth is that every rider in the lead group over there is using PEDs…All of them. There’s no way you can climb those passes at those speeds for that many days without some artificial help of some kind. And Lance is going to be made an example of. His teammates, sponsors and friends have hurled him under the bus during this spectacle and the prosecutor isn’t going to rest until the truth comes out. But even if he does get convicted, what good will it do? The IOC (International Olympic Committee) testing process is several years behind the newest drugs and masking agents being used. And I don’t think there is even a testing process to identify HGH, a common drug used to aid in recovery and stack heavy workouts. Besides, the reputation of The Tour [or the Olympics or any major sporting event] would suffer if the sport’s top athletes were found to be doping so they aren’t in a hurry so they aren’t motivated to catch everyone. If every athlete using illegal PEDs were eliminated from competition the face of professional sports as we know it would be much different right now.
I don’t really follow the Tour de France. I’d rather go ride my bike than watch a bunch of sweaty guys in spandex ride theirs. I know for a fact that I’d pass a drug test, and my sluggish pace up even the slightest of grades will testify to that. Can Cadel Evans say the same?
PING
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Another great one Ping! I wonder where we are at with PED's in MX? Talk about needing help recovering from week to week, MXers are prime candidates. A few extra red blood cells when racing in Colorado wouldn't hurt either. What would happen if it was found that one of Aldon's clients was using PED's? What would that do to Carmichael's legacy?
Interesting point mate. I'd like to think nobody in the industry is using them. If they were I'd be devastated, actually I'd be ashamed. But it's an interesting one for sure. Something I've pondered more than once.
the first one makes good sense.
love you
I think you should leave RC out of this. It's going to take a hell of a lot more than PED's to do what Carmichael did. It takes the heart the size of a lion, an attitude of a gladiator, and a body that pisses excellence to do what he did. Please don't bring up his name when talking about this. Thanks
I think Cadel is clean...
Man, The whole TDF debacle kills me. My pro am MX days ended back in the late 90's and as a vet rider I took up cycling and then eventually (now) cycling is my sport I compete in full time. I have always been a big fan of the TDF after Lance won his first year and I so want to believe that he didn't use, but now as a cyclist who drops a thousand miles a month on average, It's hard for me to imagine how you could spend 3 weeks riding at those distances, at that pace, on that terrain. Even if I doubled my work load and peaked just right, I don't think I could last much over a week. Yeah I could cover the miles, but not at race pace every day. I did a 7 stage race in the spring and by the last stage/day I was a complete mess, and every day I could feel my body not recover quite as good as the day before. And even at my level of racing there is drug use by some of the top guys but USAC doesn't test much at my level.
I get it that there is tremendous pressure to do well at that level, same goes for MX. and all the ProAMA test for is party drugs. Pressure from sponsors and knowing you have people counting on you to do well, peer pressure, pressure from fans wanting you to win annd be "their guy" can make a man dig in and do something he might not have done before. There is a lot at stake at the upper levels of sport and when you know or believe that all your competition is doing something to get ahead, you either fall into line with what everybody else is doing or you just quit cause you don't stand a chance and get a 9-5 job.
I'm not defending it, I'm just trying to get perspective on it and it sucks. For me, I am in my early 40's now and while I sat #1 in the National Standings as a Time Trial specialist for a couple of months this year (stroking my own ego here) the months dragged on and I dropped off the top. (still 4th) I feel no pressure to do anything to advance myself. I have a good carreer, a great family and there is no need for ME to play outside my personal natural limits. At 20 when I wanted to be a top pro MXer, I may have tried something like that, but to be honest, I didn't know anything about Performance Enhancing drugs and probably wouldn't have been able to afford any if I did. I just rode everyday and did a little running and that was it.
I guess my final question would be, by "proving" that lance either did blood doping or performance enhancers, what happens then? Do we start a case against the guy who got second? then third? and so on? Some of the guys coming out are guys who did get caught (tyler hamilton and floyd landis) and they are saying they are telling on Lance for the better of the sport, BUT at this point does it do any good? Eliminating the heroes is not good. Why ruin a legacy, why cant the youth coming up in the sport believe in miracles that maybe Lance did what he did clean and if he did it, then they could to? or do we shoot him down and say, it can't be done clean, sorry kid. What if it happens in our sport? What happens if people came forward with personal accounts of Bob Hannah, Jeff Ward, Ron Lechien.....(never mind that one) Ricky Johnson, Jeremy Mcgrath, Ricky Carmicheal, Ryan Dungey were using PED's and we were going to take them to a trial and if they were proven to have used they are stripped of their titles and gone from the record books? How tragic would that be? I want to believe that RC murdered everybody on the track because he is RC and at this point going forward a miracle like RC CAN happen!
So do we take Lance from the record books? Go take back all those yellow jerseys and re-write the books? or do we live in awe of an awesome career and go forward with efforts to clean up the sport and use Lance as an example of what can be done clean? aaarrrrrrgggggggggggg!!!
Some of what those riders do (or have done) doesn't even involve drugs, things like taking fresh blood out of their bodies and reinjecting it during the race. I don't think that's such a horrible thing. Many people take supplements now. Should we not be allowed to do that? (The pharmaceutical companies would be happy.) The media makes it sound like they're all a bunch of druggies, but I don't think it's that clear cut. Should athletes not be allowed to use pain killers? Isn't that a form of "performance enhancement"? What those guys do for three weeks straight is simply amazing, and I can't even imagine doing it. I don't want to see people dropping dead from taking drugs, but I have mixed feelings on some of what they do. It's not like they're all taking steroids and turning into gorillas or something. It's a tough call, especially since, like Ping said, some things aren't even detectable.
throw the PC dominiation on to the things that make you go hmmmmmmmm list, along with any over 30 fast guy......... like uh.......k-dub (ouch)...........Reeds new speed
With the endurance and recovery demands, lack of effective testing, and the current level of payoff for top performance in the sport of motocross how can I believe it is a clean sport?
@self154, yeah, taking out the blood and letting the body reproduce the blood and then add the other blood back in is called Blood Doping. Adds oxygen to your system and ups performance. The other stuff used like HGH allows the body to recover super fast, giving great performance day after day.
I think that some sort of PED testing initiated by some top riders would go a long way in helping the sport fend off allegations down the road. Submit blood samples to be tested for a later date if needed. Is the AMA capable to handle such a task?
Thanks Ping once again you made me smile.... I know you're west coast like me yet I can wake up Fridays at 6 am ish and you have already posted "Ask Ping". Always look forward to the read... more than say your ads in Racer head. What might you be selling today? LOL We all have our jobs. Keep up the great work also scratching the vanity and wearing the brace is smart move. Have a great Friday
Gonna change the subject to chest protectors and neck braces. I was lucky many times that I neve heut my neck more than I have, I would have wore a neck brace if they had them in the 70's and 80's through mis 90's when I retired. I wish I would have had a neck brace on the day the promoter decided to combine the open Novices with us Open intermideates. Well at least I had my trusty JT platic chest protector on. AS 2 ov the Novices got a jump on me out of the gate ilt was not yet time to shut off the throttle when they did, caught both handlebalre on each side of me, Masive endo even with the chest protector I wadded up and broke my sternum (that is the breastbone) wow that hurt mor than a lot of other breaks. Also tore up my neck and fractured a neck vertabra. Moral of the story dont let the novices beat you off the gate even though you can outbrake them ??????
On doping in MX I dunno but I used to do the pasta and food with water on the day before and took vit B-12 for an oxygen suplement along with my trining. I wont say anything about the recreation drugs as far as I am concered there is nothing wrong with pot execpt it is illegal and I have not had any since I was in my 20's.
drug prohibition is bad. for all drugs in sports and society in general. it's really that simple. the number one problem is it absolutely destroys our economy becauses it causes money to go to the worst possible recipients. sports would be much more colorful with out drug testing because athletes would be slightly more open about their program and their will always be athletes that want a clean image and to be a "good role model" so it would likely create more opportunitys for "second tier" pros. also, the main agument for drug testing is supposedly athlete safety, well all the retired cyclists that admitted using peds all seem pretty healthy. if athletes really had a lack of concern for their well being there would be way more serious injurys in moto.
Great write Ping, MTY I totally concur with your write as well, from someone who has been involved with cycling and followed the big names for far to long. In the end you can say you did the best you could clean and nobody can take that from you..
Good read today. Lots of reaction to the doping thing. I believe its a sure thing some riders of past and present have and do peds. With the pressure to get to the top, stay on top, get a good ride, etc. and with the injuries of our sport, and especially the money some of the atheletes of MX now make I believe its been in thesport for awhile.
Welker, have you heard of Flower Mound?
It is a little humorous to read Honda Rider 68's post. RC was a top notch rider no doubt. Barry Bonds was a top notch hitter too. PEDs don’t always correlate to excellence, but they allow one to maintain that level though reduced recovery time. The real question is, if there is no testing for it is it illegal? Ethically, many would say that PEDs are absolutely wrong. But, the AMA doesn’t have a test for it like they do for illegal race fuel, or bike weight limits.
It’s also comical that the sport tests for “party drugs” that would only diminish the ability to be successful in the long run. Maybe the AMA should’ve let RC smoke bud, and then the rest of the field may have had a chance.
How man of the top mxers are using PEDs? Bet 7 out of the top 15 do!
Simple solution based on reality: have stock and modified classes. The Tour de France could have teams who enter clean and enhancement-free and get paid twice as much for winning. Doesn't every amateur race have stock and modified classes? So why not apply the same logic to the human machine? Have a no restriction on machine or body enhancement class in motocross and pay half as much for a win, and I bet nobody would even bother to show up. Once you eliminate the drama and mystery of enhanced performance, it seems merely unfair, disrespectful, and dishonest. Just ask Marion Jones or Mark McGuire, but leave motocrossers out of the inquisition.
@jairtime,,, Flower Mound as in north Missouri? I used to race with a guy named Jason Young from Flower Mound. that was 20 years ago but I think that is where he was from.
Who cares if Lance did drugs.If he passed the drug test.Why are they comming back after all these years.He passed the test,he competed and won.Its their fault that they didn't catch him.I bet that the whole field of riders were doing it.Why do this after all these years.They are just wasting a bunch of time and money.They just need to focus on testing now and in the future to prevent this.It's their fault.
@ Playridr,,, yeah, and it would be just like the mod class was at Loretta's years back, I could have got 42nd place in 125 A stk and protested my way to a national championship!! Same thing would happen in the "Stock" class in the TDF! lol!
@ Jairtime,, Never mind, I was thinking Mound City Missouri, I know Flower Mound Texas tho,, Who was from there.... I think Jason Edwards maybe? been years.
Most of the top pros and top amatuers are using something. Probably EPO. To me, it doesn't matter. The same guys that are fast and winning would still be fast and winning without it. The real problem with this, like all pro sports, is that it forces the young athletes into using something because if they don't, they can't compete and make it to the pro level. Most pro sports and those athletes are tested. Is it time for motorcycle racers?
MTY- I'm an ex-racer in both sports too. What's interesting and that in cycling, the major doping is now occuring in masters racing. Guys who simply can't stand the fact that they are slower then they used to be. I know how they feel, that's why I stopped racing, it was just too depressing. But a lot of guys didn't stop, they started doping and since there is very little testing in masters racing, you're seeing a ton of guys remain "remarkably fresh" well into their late 40's and early 50's.
FYI brother, keep riding, I still do.
PED's are not going to improve your skills as rider, last longer and recover faster, yeah for sure..Barry Bonds hit 70 HR in one season. There's 100's of other MLB guys out there taking PED's just like he was, but could they dominate the plate as much as he did? I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but top level athletes are competing against each other, but there's still a separation, from the best and the rest, even if there all taking the same PED's.. I'm NOT saying it's happening in MX, but just a general saying of sports/competition in general..
You'd probably be just as surprised about Lance Armstrong taking PED's as much as it is common in MLS (Soccer) + Basketball.. I played D1 Football in college and have seen it used by your typical frat boy, who just wants to look good, and other sports you would never even imagine it goes on in..
let the dopers have a "modified' class and cram all the bicep popping ,wang shrinking rage juice they want.
That was probably the cleanest Tour in a long time. Pretty much everyone had a bad day at one point or another and Cadel was the most consistent. You could really see it in the teams of the top riders on the tough days in the mountains as none of them were particularly dominant. A few years ago you had 200 pound domestiques dropping the climbers so Uniball could set up his win. Certainly was fun to watch and it wasn't decided until the end
As far as doping in general, still there I think but way toned down. These guys are just incredible athletes who train 365 days a year. The laterne rouge would ride the legs off of anyone, sitting backwards on the handlebars coming off of a 2 week bender. They are that physically talented and gifted to start with. Everything is focused on the time they spend on the bike. Recovery, nutrition, massage chiro, the whole deal. No life and well over 100 days of racing per year. The amount of planning and preparation for the Tour is immense. Cadel has been on top of his game since the mid 90's and this year everything fell into line. He was consistent, didn't get hurt, didn't get sick and made all the right moves. First time it has ever happened for him. This was his year, pretty much 100% certain he was clean. The Tour is hard as balls but I truly believe it is doable for a very small percentage of the population, clean. Doping doesn't get you up those climbs, pure talent does
There was one doping positive from a guy on a Russian, but I am pretty sure it was a case of Uncle Sergei sez.
Give Cadel his due as this win was earned the hard way, trust me
Several girls have tested positive for steroid use in recent years that play highschool girls softball. One girls parents acknowledged they knew, but wanted her to get a good scholarship.
This was in TX.
Yes MTY, I was talking about Flower Mound, TX.
@Eddie,, Yeah the tour seemed to be on a little more level playing field I admit it was one of the best tours I have seen in a while for sure. And I was so pleased to see Cadel get his win. He is getting older and Andy has many years and opportunity ahead for him.
I find it hard not to believe it isn't still going on in a big way. Like I said, I know of guys in classes lower than me, Cat 4 and 5 Newbies are doing it. If these guys are doing it,,, dude!!
tho I will say it did look like Alberto was clean. Bad tour for him. he was off. Not enough "Red Meat"!!!
Eveytime someone uses the word "idiot" I feel as though they are addressing me. So_ for what its worth Ping the neck brace look has grown on me, Im old school electro helmet jofa guy, and by god the neckbrace look has grown on me. (kadavor bone 4 screws and a plate c-5 c-6} vintage 1983. Joe._
Hummmmm!!!! Now I'm finding it hard to believe RogerDeCoster's 115yr old,70 time tour de france winner Eddy Merckx reads ask Ping every week.
IF you bring up RC, then he was doing it when he was about 8 years old, cause he dominated then too!
I ain't never wore one, I dont ride anymore, dunno how they feel, (I hated a chest protector but i lernt to use it ,.. (2fiddys class) II'd say the new brace looks fairly cool nowdays? or close to it, it doesnt appear odd as in the beginning.
Eddy Merckx, now you are talking about a guy that could put the hammer down. I would have loved to have seen him in his prime, what a machine. He was like another level up from RC.
Exactly my thoughts Ping, win at all costs and use anything to help you.
Ben Johnson is still the Greatest sprinter of his time.
You lay off our Cadel or else!
And yes!, your all gay
Drugs are bad.... UM, K
@MTY - I know it's called blood doping; my point was that it's a stretch to call it "doping" since there's no "dope" involved.
A veteran of the Tour was interviewed on 60 Minutes (can't remember his name) and he described how he had been a strong peloton guy and then all of a sudden he couldn't stay with the pack - meaning, he was one of the few who wasn't doping. (There was insinuation that he began to, in order to compete.)
I agree with bigkid in that the "war on drugs" actually creates crime where there wouldn't be any (or a minimal amount). You only have to look at Prohibition to see that. The persecution of individuals because of pot, specifically, is a joke.
Another joke is that Big Pharma is actively trying to have supplements limited and/or difficult to purchase.
The comparison of bicycle racers to Barry Bonds was weak. Bonds looked like someone stuck a hose in him and filled him up with ... well, we know what he was filled with.
Wow.... Wow...and Wow this was almost as good as the top 10 honda riders
Eddy digs motocross, plus I'm Belgian
@mty. On a more serious note it is sad that amateurs at that lowest of the low level of the sport would turn to PEDs. I have heard the rumors and some ne'er do wells have been zapped, especially at the "Masters" level. Internet and credit cards, I guess. It bothers me that one penny's worth of resources is being applied to even bother to catch the domestic amateur cheats.
I feel that there is no need for doping at the amateur level in order to be successful, with the right training and time applied to the sport anyone can become a successful Cat 3 or Cat 2. Physical talent takes over from there on out. Power meters and all that can make your approach scientific and very efficient.
I was a Cat 2 for several years, won races and was competitive at a regional level and never touched any of that crap. No need, just ride lots and train smart.
sef154- the guy that could no longer stay with the peloton was none other then Lemond. He was talking about how all of a sudden 180Lbs guys were ripping over passes at 24mph.
Eddy Merckx- don't kid yourself, if you were winning Cat 2 races you were/are a bad ass. Very, very few people could finish a Cat 4 race let alone win a Cat 2.
It is the same thing with MX. If you were drawn to the sport you probably already had a physical predisposition towards it, far more then the average person. If you managed to make it to the intermediate level you were going very, very fast compared to what the average person could ever hope to do.
Give yourself a little credit, it sounds like you earned it.
Speaking of doping, anyone test Roido lately?? ha ha, both his head and it body wouldn't pass any test.........
Why does everybody pretend to care about PED's? I want lots of HGH, stuff is awesome.
Ping you got it wrong, Cadel is one of the clean ones.
@Racer - It wasn't Lemond. I follow bicycle racing and know most of the top guys. I didn't know the guy they interviewed to whom I referred earlier. Tyler Hamilton was the main guy who threw Lance under the bus during that show, but this was somebody else - like I said, a peloton guy, not a contender for the maillot jaune.
With Lance Armstrong, NOBODY has proven the guy broke any rules are was doping. Its just these guys words against his.. All of the guys saying he doped are all in book dealsa, trying to make some money. Sounds like greed and jealousy to me. And Lance said one of his strategies for the Tour was to go into the race not in his best shepe yet, but to ride himself into shape as the race progressed, and to try and hit his peak fitness when the hit the big climbs. Sounds to me like he was pretty smart. Whenever someone has big success, and the guys who helped get them there dont get the recognition, there is jealousy. That is what these snitches sound like to me, jealous, and greedy.
For anyone who is interested in how to win the Tour without doping, this is a great read:
http://www.smh.com.au/sport/cycling/why-evans-was-always-going-to-win-20110730-1i59s.html
@MTY: Since your almost a bicycling professional it wonders me, that you don't know about the insanely accurate testing methods of UCI and WADA. They can measure any substance to the pictogram, also substances used for hiding blooddoping. Some of the riders get tested 3 times a day during TDF, and the window of time for them to do doping, just isn't there. Sometimes they catch a few guys, mostly the ones which you already know is using doping (Vinokourov, Kolobnev, Di Luca). I dont see how the teams can afford to have laboratories which can outrun the high-tec testcenters. Saxo bank Sungard is a danish team, their sponsor placed not far from me, doesnt have the means to buy a big laboratory for doing. If the rider or the doctor would do doping at the race it leaves a higher hematocrit-value, which makes it necessary to get blood-thinner (traceable). The blood from the bags will also leave a little plastic (traceable). The teams also have their own "doping-pass" which keeps an eye on the blood of their riders. All this makes me to believe the sport is more clean than ever :)
Well, I'm far from a "Professional" as you put it. I used cycling as training for MX and when I quit moto, I took up bike racing. But I am familiar with the testing to a small extent.
AND since the UCI and WADA confirms that their testing is usually 2-3 years behind PED Profiles, one would "wonder" how with you living so close to Saxo Bank sponsor headquarters, you would not be privey to this information?
I will admit tho looking back on the 2011 tour, things did seem a little more "human" than years past. TYFBAD.